Feeling Off in Your 30s, 40s or 50s? – The Best Time to Start Hormone Therapy with Dr. Terri DeNeui
In this powerhouse episode of Hormones, Metabolism, and You, Dr. Cassie Smith welcomes nationally recognized hormone expert Dr. Terri DeNeui for a deeply informative conversation about women’s hormone health through every life stage. From the subtle shifts in your 30s to the major hormonal declines of your 40s and 50s, this episode tackles it all — including the myths around hormone replacement therapy and cancer.
Dr. DeNeui, author of Hormone Havoc, shares why symptoms like fatigue, low libido, mood swings, and poor sleep are not just “normal aging,” but signs of underlying hormonal imbalance. She and Dr. Cassie explore the importance of gut health, the dangers of long-term SSRI and birth control use, and how lifestyle choices shape your hormonal landscape. Most importantly, they challenge outdated medical guidance and explain why estrogen therapy may not only be safe — but protective.
Whether you’re navigating perimenopause, confused by lab results, or wondering if it’s “too early” or “too late” to start hormones, this episode brings clarity, compassion, and science-backed advice.
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Guest info and links:
Dr. Terri DeNeui is a board-certified nurse practitioner, nationally recognized speaker, author, and founder of EvexiPEL® and Evexia Medical. She holds advanced certifications in hormone replacement, preventive wellness, and functional medicine. Her passion for root-cause healing and optimal hormone balance has helped transform the lives of thousands of patients and train countless providers across the country. Dr. DeNeui is also the author of Hormone Havoc, a must-read guide for anyone struggling with hormone imbalance.
Blog/Transcription:
0:03 Welcome back to this week’s episode of Hormones Metabolism and You. I’m your host, Dr. Cassie Smith. I’m a functional
0:09 endocrinologist with a practice based out of Oklahoma City. Today, I had the
0:15 privilege of interviewing Dr. Terry Deny. We had a conversation about
0:21 women’s health. We talked in particular about how hormones change throughout a
0:26 woman’s life. most notably how in our 30s we start to lose testosterone and in
0:31 our 40s progesterone. We talked about what symptoms this causes, what women
0:38 will start to experience, what lab tests they can look for, and then ways we can treat this. We then talked about after
0:46 our 40s when we actually need hormone replacement therapy in the form of estrogen therapy as well. When it is
0:52 appropriate to add estrogen therapy, how you do that and how long you can take estrogen. We also discussed the
0:59 hypothetical or mythical conversation around does hormones cause cancer. I
1:05 found this conversation to be very insightful, very educational. So if you are a woman who you know is in their
1:13 30s, 40s or 50s, this will be enlightening for you. I believe so. I’m
1:18 so excited for you to hear this conversation. Dr. Terry Deny is a boardcertified nurse practitioner,
1:25 nationally renowned speaker, author, and entrepreneur. She holds advanced certifications in hormone replacement
1:32 therapy, preventative wellness medicine, and functional medicine. Dr. Dr. Denai earned her bachelor’s degree in nursing
1:39 from Texas Women’s University and achieved both her master’s and doctorate degrees in nursing from the University
1:44 of Texas at Arlington. She’s the founder of Avexius Health Solutions and creator
1:50 of the Avexipel method. She leads the Aexius medical advisory board, hand
1:56 selecting leading experts from around the globe to support the education and knowledge resources that provide the
2:02 opportunity to experience a whole new way to practice medicine that’s truly transformational for patients and
2:09 practitioners. She founded Hormonal Health and Wellness in South Lake, Texas, now known as a Vexius Medical
2:16 Center in 2008 as the first step in her new pursuit. Prior to that, she was a
2:22 hospitalist in emergency medicine. In her practice, Dr. Denai strives to help
2:27 men and women find optimal health. Her success and the positive outcomes that her patients enjoy can be attributed to
2:34 her thirst for knowledge. She says, “I will never stop asking questions. I will
2:40 never stop seeking answers.” If a patient is not achieving optimal results, we must ask more questions and
2:47 uncover the answers. Sometimes answers we didn’t know were there when we first
2:52 asked the question. Medicine and science are ever evolving. We can never stop asking questions or seeking answers.
2:59 This is why I love her because you guys who listen to me know that I feel the same way. I always want to know why.
3:06 That thirst of knowledge led Dr. Deny to discover pellet therapy and the benefits
3:11 of testosterone in women. 15 years ago, she traveled to Arizona to train with
3:17 Gino Totora, one of the pioneers in hormone pellet therapy. Her experience there led her to introduce pellet
3:24 therapy into her practice and evolve her treatment methods. In a few short years, her methodology became renown, evolving
3:31 into a brand known today as the Avexipel method. To date, thousands of
3:36 practitioners have been trained and certified in the Avexipel method and tens of thousands of patients are living
3:43 happier, healthier, and better lives because of Aexipel. So, I hope that you enjoy our conversation today around
3:50 hormone health. Welcome back to this week’s episode of Hormones, Metabolism, and You. I’m your host, Dr. Cassie
3:56 Smith. I’m a functional medicine endocrinologist. Today, I am interviewing Terry Deny. She
4:03 is a nurse practitioner and she actually has her doctorate. She does all these amazing things with hormones. And so she
4:09 works with a company called A Vexius. I’m going to let her tell you about that, but I brought her on today because
4:14 I wanted her to tell you guys just like I do more about hormones. So, we’re going to talk about our life as we
4:21 transition as a woman through our 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, how our hormones change, what we can look for, and then
4:28 we’re going to ask her the questions you guys have like, does hormones cause cancer? Should I stop my hormones at any
4:34 point? And so, she is just a wealth of knowledge. And she’s also written this amazing book, which you guys know that I’ve talked about and I love, Hormone
4:41 Havoc. So, I’m going to let her tell you guys about that as well. So, thanks for coming on. So, appreciate it. It’s um my passion to
4:48 educate and get the right information out there um as you are. So, I really um it’s an honor for me to be here. Thanks
4:55 for having me. Yeah. So, take a minute and just kind of tell everyone I guess your journey like
5:03 where you started, what you do now, so everyone kind of knows, you know, that you know what you’re talking about.
5:08 Let’s give you some credibility. Okay. Uh so my background as a nurse
5:13 practitioner is in emergency medicine and I worked for a big hospitalist group in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex for
5:20 many years and before that I was in labor and delivery and women’s health and I kind of transitioned out of that. Didn’t think I was going to be back in
5:26 the fe the women’s hormone world but here I am. Um but one of the things that
5:32 really bothered me about what I did especially with the hospitalist group emergency medicine’s fun. you’re
5:38 stabilizing people and getting them, you know, moving on down the road for the next thing. But even in the emergency
5:43 room and especially as a hospitalist, what I recognized, you know, pretty
5:48 pretty quickly is that pretty much 90% of what we were treating was some sort
5:56 of exacerbation or complication of a chronic disease that was preventable.
6:01 And I really became started asking this question, why aren’t we doing more for
6:07 disease prevention? And so I just started on this quest of educating
6:12 myself really and going to other conferences outside our traditional medical conferences and just learning
6:18 some other things. I was exposed to this concept of functional medicine, you
6:24 know, about 16 years ago. And I really thought, okay, there’s something here.
6:29 And there was a specific story actually. I was sitting listening to a doctor speak um and I can’t remember her name
6:36 but she had written a book called Awakening Athena and she was telling a
6:41 story about a woman and she was sharing this profound life change not only in
6:46 how this woman felt and showed up in life but just some disease reversal in
6:51 this woman hypertension and some metabolic issues things like that and I just had this aha moment that this was a
6:58 key missing piece of our education. So, I just I kind of started going down that track. I eventually partnered up with
7:05 another clinician and opened a private practice and uh she did weight loss and
7:11 wasn’t really interested in hormones and so asked me if I wanted to take on that the hormone piece of her weight loss
7:17 clinic and uh it just kind of went from there and I ended up meeting actually what really happened is I was losing
7:24 some patients to a local doctor who was doing testosterone in their patients and I nobody had ever taught me about
7:31 testosterone in all my training. in in advanced hormone education at different conferences. Nobody was
7:38 talking about testosterone in women 15 16 years ago. Uh and so when I met with
7:43 him, I it just there were so many unanswered questions with my patients that were like this is the missing
7:49 piece. So then I delved into that education and brought testosterone therapy along with the other hormone
7:56 optimizations back to my clinic and it just it exploded. And it’s just it’s been a journey of learning, learning for
8:02 my patients, continuing to research. I’ve just saw a lot of things happening with my patients with being able to get
8:07 off anti-depressants and get off sleeping pills and get off anxiety medicines and just so many medications
8:14 that especially for women just kind of make worse the symptoms that we’re trying to a lot of the symptoms that
8:20 we’re trying to overcome, you know, like libido and energy and and weight and things like that. So, and then I started
8:26 realizing that I could do a lot better and impact a lot more people if we educated more clinicians. And my
8:34 husband, now we weren’t married at the time, started another company with another doctor and began training
8:40 doctors all over the country in uh hormone therapy, specifically hormone
8:45 pellet therapy. And it just really has kind of taken off. And when I paused
8:52 from that for a while to work on my doctorate and then you know for the last 5 years people like you need to write a
8:57 book you need to write a book and so really the book is a culmination of years of research and teaching and
9:05 really dispelling a lot of myths. There’s still so many myths and misconceptions and fears uh about
9:11 hormones which I think we’re probably going to talk a little bit about today. So, it’s a it’s a little bit long
9:16 explanation of the journey, but that’s kind of how I got from emergency hospital medicine, acute care to where I
9:23 am now. Yeah, I love that. I think most people in our position have this story and it
9:29 usually, you know, comes from a question of why and why are we not trying to prevent things and then it just kind of
9:36 evolves into this wonderful I call it divine timing just like everything falls into place, right? and you have this
9:42 mission, right? And then once you have this mission and this desire for something that you know is like burning
9:48 inside you, that’s what I tell my staff all the time, like there’s I mean we’re like this speck in the universe, right?
9:54 But if you can educate and empower people to learn things that help them,
10:00 you know, make their health a priority and make them feel better, then they can do what they’re supposed to do on this earth. And then it just it becomes very
10:06 Absolutely. So and I and people are hungry for that right now. They’re hungry for the truth.
10:12 They’re hungry for, you know, just answers because I think the last four or
10:17 five years have really woken us up to I think we could do better. So, I know we can do better. So, yeah, I
10:24 would I know we can do better. So, so I kind of want to start with So,
10:30 this is going to be more tailored to women, although I know you do hormone replacement in men and I do as well, but I think it’s really important for women
10:36 to empower them, especially even in their 20s and 30s. And so I kind of want you to describe to women who are
10:43 listening to this. Let’s talk about, you know, we start having menstrual cycles in our teens. Some people are starting
10:48 even earlier than that now, but we start having menstrual cycles in our teens. And hopefully we’re somebody who has
10:54 them. Maybe they’re regular. You know, we’re having normal menstrual cycles into our 20s, maybe beginning into our
11:01 30s. Although, unfortunately, a lot of women end up on birth control in their teens, and then that causes a whole
11:06 bunch of issues because they have painful periods, right? And instead of using our brain and saying, “Why are we
11:11 having painful periods? Let’s figure this out.” We just give people medicine to shut them up. But let’s say that
11:18 we’re one of the few who have started our menstrual cycle in our teens and have progressed into our 20s and now are
11:23 in our 30s and maybe we we were even on birth control and now we’re off and maybe we’re even having normal periods.
11:30 What are some of the things you’re going to start seeing in your 30s as a woman as your hormones change? like, you know,
11:36 we’re not obviously going to have hot flashes usually, but what I see in my patients, I’m curious with you, is that
11:42 in your 30s, you can start to lose not only progesterone, but testosterone. That’s earlier than we used to. And so,
11:48 what are kind of some of the things that you’ll see in your 30s as a woman as your hormones change symptom-wise and
11:54 just feeling wise? Yeah. So, you know, as the our 20s are supposed to be our our main reproductive
12:01 years and and I think that’s part of it. A lot of women are waiting later to reproduce. Uh but especially if a woman
12:08 has already had babies in their 20s, um the combination of that and then turning
12:13 30, uh just really decreases our testosterone production. And the first
12:18 thing that a lot of women don’t even realize that we make testosterone, it’s been, you know, um purported as a male
12:25 hormone. And women actually make testosterone. Our ovaries, you know, this make testosterone. It’s a powerful hormone. uh it does peak in our 20s in
12:33 our reproductive years, but it’s not just about reproduction. Um it’s it’s so
12:39 much about brain health and so many women what they’ll start feeling is um a
12:45 kind of a depressed mood, maybe more anxiety as their testosterone lowers and their estrogen is still clocking along
12:51 really good. They get a little an um anxiety. Um definitely mood swings and
12:57 just energy overall fatigue. um they might start seeing body composition
13:03 changes like they it’s harder to you know um stay fit sometimes as their
13:09 testosterone lowers. But the biggest symptom I would say women that I’ve seen women present with in their 30s is
13:16 depression, anxiety, irritability, mood swings, not sleeping well and and
13:22 fatigue. Those are kind of the big ones. And then every decade those get worse as our levels decline. But we do start
13:28 losing testosterone in our 30s. And you mentioned birth control pills and birth control pills actually also lower
13:34 testosterone in two ways. Um it shuts down ovarian production of testosterone,
13:39 but it also raises a protein that binds up free testosterone. So it’s kind of a
13:45 double whammy. Um women that are on oral birth control pills have even lower testosterone um than they would have off
13:52 of it. So it causes a lot of those symptoms. And then we’d be remiss not to talk about, you know, lifestyle and the
14:01 gut and diet because that all plays a role in hormones and hormone metabolism
14:06 and how all that works. So yeah, and that’s one of the things I really like about your book is that you
14:12 throw the all the hormones in there. So, not just do you educate people about estrogen and testosterone and you know
14:19 progesterone, but you talk about thyroid hormone and you talk about melatonin and you talk about growth hormone and all
14:25 these hormones that are really important to your gut. And that’s the thing I think that we have a problem with in
14:30 this country is that when your gut’s not healthy, it’s impossible for your hormones to be healthy. like they they
14:37 and so we have a lot of people who have terrible guts, whether it be from poor lifestyle choices like food, stress, but
14:44 also sleep. Some of it is just, you know, the vaccines that we had or maybe how you were born, all the antibiotics
14:50 your doctor gives you. I mean, there’s so many things that play a to it. You know, their doctor gives you birth control, your doctor gives you an
14:56 antibiotic when you have a viral infection, just all these crazy things that then pre prevent your stomach from
15:02 working the way your GI tract it’s supposed to. And then that feeds into disrupting your hormone balance. And so
15:08 in addition to that, you’re stressed out and you’re, you know, trying to do a million things and you’re not sleeping and we’re not eating well and just it’s
15:14 no wonder that nobody’s hormones work well and younger and younger. Exactly. And and then, you know, add in the layer
15:22 of technology and never letting your brain rest. I mean, it’s just it’s multiffactoral and we’re seeing more
15:27 hormone disruption in younger people now than ever before in our history. And it
15:34 can all be pulled back to the majority of it to to the gut and stress. For
15:39 sure. Yeah, I would agree. And so I agree with that. In 30s, I see women who the the
15:45 anxiety, depression, the brain fog, the fatigue, the my body is changing. And
15:51 then I have a litany of women who are in their 30s who don’t like to have sex with their husband. And that is
15:59 alarming. Yeah. I I I don’t even know. I I don’t
16:04 even know why I didn’t say low libido because that is the big one and that’s kind of I mean I I always kind of think
16:09 that’s the obvious one. Uh but yeah, that you know the relationship piece of losing testosterone is the one that
16:16 breaks my heart the most because yes, women lose interest in sex and that’s a
16:22 deal breakaker for relationships. I mean, you know, I tell women all the time, guys can handle you being moody
16:28 and cranky and irritable, but all those things and not having sex is kind of like h it’s a double whammy. So, it it’s
16:34 it’s frustrating and and and men take it personally and you know, it’s it’s a whole dynamic that has to be talked
16:41 about for sure. And so, that’s what I would see as well. And then as they transition into their
16:48 40s, you know, right around 40, I feel like it starts to get really bad because
16:54 I feel like not only are you losing more testosterone, but then they start to lose progesterone, too, right? Is that
16:59 what you see? And so, what do you see in your 40s typically? Yeah. So, it’s kind of strange. It’s
17:04 almost like 40 and a day all of a sudden it things change. And progesterone is a
17:11 big one. And what happens is progesterone is somewhat of a calming hormone. So you so when everything’s in
17:18 perfect harmony, you’ve got estrogen, testosterone, progesterone is like if you’re to your point early, if you’re
17:23 not on exogenous hormones, if you if you eat well, if you’ve got a healthy gut, everything’s kind of in harmony, right?
17:29 And then you start to lose testosterone in your 30s and then things kind of get out of whack. And then you start to lose
17:35 progesterone uh in your 40s and that’s when the anxiety ramps up a lot more
17:42 especially right before their cycle. Um pretty much all those symptoms of moods and anxiety really just get worse when
17:49 progesterone starts to decline. And the telltale sign for a lot of 40year-old women is their menstrual cycles become
17:55 very heavy, very clotty. They’ll say, you know, I can’t, you know, get out of
18:01 the house without a, you know, super protection for 30 minutes. You know, it’s just so heavy for the first few
18:08 days. And that’s the that’s the telltale sign your progesterone’s low. And a lot of women at that point might visit their
18:14 OBG and get put on a birth control pill, which is the worst thing to do in your 40s, or be put on an IUD, or get an
18:20 ablation, which is probably the least, it’s the least invasive as far as like hormone um you know, putting yourself on
18:27 hormones. But it’s not fixing the root cause. And you said something earlier that’s so important. You have to get to
18:33 the root of it and quit bandating. And there’s one thing I really tried to educate in the book and even when we’re
18:39 training other clinicians and doctors and nurse practitioners is we’ve got to kind of shift out of this alipathic
18:45 mindset of giving a prescription to bandaid a symptom and really peeling back and looking at the root cause. And
18:52 I’m not anti-prescriptions, but the majority of prescriptions that we prescribe in this country were never
18:58 meant to be lifelong solutions. They were meant to be a stop gap solution to
19:04 simmer the fire while you figure out what’s causing the fire in the first place. But unfortunately, as a society,
19:11 we’ve we’ve kind of become dependent on these things rather than looking at the root cause. So, uh, but that’s the
19:16 biggest things. It exacerbates the moods. it it the the anxiety ramps up and the menstrual cycles get really
19:22 heavy and um hard to deal with. And sleep, I find that when your
19:29 progesterone goes down, your sleep goes out the window. And so, yes, I I agree. like it’s like something
19:35 with 40 and all of a sudden women are like and then you know the unfortunate thing is they go to their OB/GYN and
19:42 they tell their OB/GYN and to your point they say well you need an SSRI andor burst control and like no you don’t
19:48 because that makes everything worse what you need is to figure out the root cause and also to your point I feel like the
19:53 problem with Americans in general uh we are very like we want a quick fix we
19:58 want to know what’s wrong and then we want it to be fixed yesterday and it’s like well it took 40 years for you to
20:05 develop this issue. It’s not going to fix itself overnight. But that’s where I think the line of medication people
20:11 become very long and the line of lifestyle and health choice of people become very short because we are all
20:16 worried about tomorrow instead of 10, 20, 30 years from now. We have to change
20:22 that mindset in this country. Um, and so I see that as well. You know, in your
20:27 40s your testosterone still going down. And so that’s when I feel like too in your 40s it just becomes a really big
20:32 mess. like their insulin starts to go up, they start gaining weight, they’re also losing muscle because they don’t
20:38 have testosterone. So then they’re gaining weight even faster now that we don’t have the testosterone. It’s just it is a big you become a big metabolic
20:45 mess unfortunately. And you absolutely and the libido gets
20:50 worse. You’re not sleeping. You’re crankier. You’re moody. Like it makes everything worse. And and progesterone
20:56 is like I said a calming hormone and it’s just powerful powerful for sleep. Um, you know, but the other thing you
21:03 you said something really im important there with those all those medications
21:08 and those solutions that we’re given making things worse. And that’s kind of the thing that I see the most. And um
21:14 the our 40s is typically when or after that second baby, whichever comes first, is when so many women get placed on
21:20 these SSRIs, antid-depressants, you know, like Prozac and Zoloft and those others. And what what happens is it
21:28 doesn’t fix the problem. It makes them emotionally labile. So, they’re not happy, they’re not sad, they just don’t
21:34 care. And the other thing that happens because there’s a correlation between low testosterone and cortisol levels
21:41 start to go up and that lays down belly fat and causes more insulin resistance and then you get on this hamster wheel
21:47 of, well, now you need a prescription for this and a prescription for that. And as you know, um, just really
21:53 starting to optimize those hormones and and that lifestyle is makes such a huge
21:59 difference. And this this concept you said something so important about wanting a quick fix now and an answer
22:06 now and not looking at the long-term solution. And I heard somebody say one
22:11 time and it’s kind of true. People want change, but they don’t want to change. It’s so hard to It’s a lot easier to
22:18 take a pill to fix all your problems, right? Uh but the tradeoff long term is
22:23 not the best solution as you know it’s a terrible solution actually. Yeah. I ask my patients this a lot. You
22:29 know hypocrisy you said if somebody asks you if you can fix them and if they don’t want to be ill anymore you have to
22:35 ask that person are they willing to give up what made them ill. And a lot of people are not willing to give up their
22:43 Diet Coke and their you know bottle of wine every night and their So it it is a give and take but also it’s our job as a
22:49 provider to meet them where they are and to start giving them educational information as to what are little things that you can do to start moving in the
22:56 right direction. And the other thing, the problem, the women who are listening to this in their 40s, I mean, the thing that infuriates me is by the time they
23:03 get to somebody like me or you, they, you know, to your point, they don’t feel well, they’re anxious, they’re moody,
23:08 they’re tired, they don’t, you know, they’re like, I don’t know why I don’t want to have sex with my husband. They go to a doctor who they, you know, trust
23:15 and combine and and the doctor says, you’re fine. You’re fine. Here’s the medicine. You’re fine. This is normal. This is they go to two of them or three
23:22 of them and they all say that. So then they are thinking by the time they get to you or me that they are broken. something is wrong with them and that’s
23:28 what really makes me upset and that’s what we have to change right like it’s it’s not you
23:33 yeah that’s a story after story and and you know this because you’ve seen this
23:39 in your practice but it it is it is what I it’s a great reminder of why we do what we do because we get busy and we
23:44 get in you know our busyness every day but when you sit down with that person who’s been to two three four five other
23:50 clinicians and have been told you’re normal your labs are normal and then When we tell them, “No, there’s some
23:58 things here that are explaining why you feel the way you do.” You kind of see the hope light up their face, like, “Oh
24:04 my gosh, there’s an answer. I thought I was crazy.” And, you know, my relationship, my husband’s we’re
24:10 fighting all the time, you know, and and I’ve had patients on the brink of divorce. I had one couple that literally
24:16 had filed for divorce and was separated and they both had heard about this
24:21 hormone therapy that you and I do and came in together and are married to this
24:26 day. So the relationship piece is so key. Feeling good is so important, but
24:33 the the ripple effect of that relationship piece on families and on generations is really what um drives a
24:40 lot of what drives me actually. Yeah. No, I agree. I tell my I tell people all the time, I was on vacation
24:46 last week and somebody said, ‘What do you do for a living? And I said, ‘Well, I’m a chief validator. And they’re like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “I just
24:52 validate people’s feelings.” Like, that’s what I do. I validate the fact that you don’t feel well. I show you
24:57 that you don’t and then I hope you feel better. Um, you know, I mean, and it’s a really good feeling, right? Like people
25:03 just want to be validated and then they want to You have to start with that. Like you
25:08 have to know that you have some sort of issue before you can climb out of that hole. So if you’ve gone to three or four
25:13 providers and they give you no hope, then you’re probably not going to be motivated to do anything differently
25:19 unfortunately. So then also I want to ask you because I hear this all the time, you know, so I maybe I heard this
25:25 from a 39year-old this week who’s just, you know, she is a very high achieving person, very much like myself and you.
25:32 She owns a business. She’s busy. She’s And she said to me, “Well, Cassie, I don’t need to start hormones now, do I?
25:37 Because although it looks like I’m in menopause, like I’m only 39 and so my doctors are saying I need to wait till
25:43 I’m 50. And I’m like, well, you know, that that’s not your biological clock, sister. Like, right. So, talk to me
25:49 about that. If you are 35 or you’re 39 or you’re 42, if your progesterone is
25:55 low, we can even start with that. Is there a time you need to wait before you start it or estrogen? Like, because that
26:00 is a huge misconception in my opinion. Yeah. The time to Yeah. The time to
26:06 start hormones is when your hormones are depleted. It doesn’t matter the age. And some women this happens earlier. Some
26:12 women it happens later. There’s a genetic component to that as you know. Um there’s a you know how many babies
26:18 have I had component because that plays a role in how quickly we deplete things like testosterone. But there’s some, you
26:25 know, the progression I see most often is, you know, women come in in their 30s, we there we replace their
26:32 testosterone that that they ride that out and then they hit their 40s and then you have to layer in progesterone, maybe
26:38 thyroid, maybe some other things. It depends. And then their 50s typically, but not all women follow that nice bell
26:44 curve, right, as you said. I mean, I had a patient just the other day that went through early menopause at 39 and she’s
26:50 now 52 and she hasn’t been on hormones for 13 years and she just you can see it
26:57 on her face and her skin and her countenance and just the the gosh the
27:03 the the loss of hope that this is just my life. This is just my life and this is what I have to deal with and it’s
27:10 it’s not that way. So there is no age factor of how long you wait and how long
27:15 you should stay on them. There it just it’s so individualized. There’s a bell curve average where women fall into but
27:22 there’s always outliers. And that bell curve average I think is shifting to younger from what I’ve seen in the last seven years. And I also
27:28 think it’s important to point out like to her in particular she feels like something she like it’s almost like her
27:35 fault, right? Like well I shouldn’t need this. I shouldn’t. And I’m like, “No, I mean, no, that’s just where you’re at
27:40 right now.” Now, you know, if you fix your stress and you fix your gut and you fix your sleep and all these things,
27:46 could it get better? Maybe. But I said to her, you know, are you going to stop working 90 hours a week? Are you going to sleep eight hours a night? Is your
27:52 business just going to all of a sudden evaporate? No. Okay. Well, then we need some hormones, right? Like um and I
27:58 think that that’s the other thing, too, is like you can’t take it personally, right? You can’t There are things you could probably do. everyone, myself
28:05 included, there’s something I could do to make myself better, but we’re kind of doing the best we can as humans in the
28:10 life that we’re in right now and seasons change in life. And so I I don’t I hate it when people feel like, oh, I can’t
28:17 take a hormone because I’m not at the age that my doctor says or the world says or society says because I tell my
28:23 patients this all the time, you are an in of one. It doesn’t matter what society says, what medicine says, what
28:28 you are you and so we are here to make you better, right? And so where whenever you need the hormones, you need to take
28:34 the hormones. Right. That’s right. The problem is there’s not a lot of clinicians that understand how
28:42 to diagnose and and optimize hormones because we’re trained, right? I mean,
28:47 you can speak to this, but most of us are well, we are all trained nothing on hormones until now. Endocrinology world
28:54 may be different. I’m just talking about in the general education world of clinical education, but you know, we’re
28:59 basically trained that at some point in a woman’s life, she’s going to start having hot flashes and at that point, you can give her some form of estrogen,
29:05 and it’s usually an oral estrogen or a patch and some synthetic progesterine. And then when all those go away, she can
29:11 go off those medications. That’s pretty much what we’re taught. And it’s so backwards, you know, there’s so much
29:18 missing to that conversation. Unfortunately, I will tell you as a board trained endocrinologist at a very
29:24 good university, that’s what I was taught, nothing more. That women need estrogen uh for their bones. You know,
29:31 they teach us a little bit about their bones. They don’t teach you anything about their brain, their heart, but they say yes. Women will develop hot flashes.
29:37 Only at that point should you put them on estrogen. It should be a pill or a patch, which by the way, the pill does
29:42 the same thing birth control does. It increases that protein you were talking about, sex hormone binding, which then tanks your testosterone. Um, at that
29:49 point you put them on it for the lowest dose for the shortest amount of time as possible and when the symptoms go away
29:54 you take it off. They never talk about progesterone and sleep never talk about it permenopausally. They never even talk
30:00 about giving progesterone when women are having problems conceiving which is a whole other conversation. Um, they don’t
30:06 really talk they they didn’t teach me anything about testosterone in women and they teach you minimal about
30:11 testosterone in men and that is a typical American indocrinology fellowship in the United States. So when
30:18 I got out and and I started learning other things, I was like, “Dear God, so
30:23 unfortunate, right?” Um, it does need to change at that level,
30:28 you know, and at the education level because the one specialty area that, you know, most of us would rely on to have
30:35 the latest, greatest, most accurate knowledge would be endocrinology, you know, but but what you just described is
30:41 the alopathic model, right? I mean, it’s just at some point they’re going to get a symptom and you’re going to band-aid that symptom with this drug and not
30:48 really I mean, all the data about the lack of estrogen and stroke risk and
30:54 Alzheimer’s and dementia risk and cardiovascular disease risk like how is that missing from the educational
31:01 platform is beyond me because it’s not because the studies aren’t there but I guess it’s whoever is writing the
31:07 textbooks. I don’t know. Yes. and who’s funding those textbooks. And for anyone who’s listening and for
31:13 anyone who is listening, I have personally asked this the University of Oklahoma’s endocrinology fellowship to
31:19 allow their fellows to come rotate with me. It is one mile away. I would be happy to have them. I would be happy to
31:25 have any endocrinology fellow come to our clinic and rotate with me if if you know for credit to learn these things
31:32 because it is when you get out there in the real world, it is just mind-blowing. And to your point, I mean, all doctors
31:38 need this. I mean, residency programs as well. If there’s a residency program listening that wants to send some
31:43 residents, like I’m happy to help train those people because it is just when you
31:48 get into the real world, it is so impactful and so powerful. And that’s why I do what I do because as a, you
31:54 know, endocrinologist, I was just writing drugs and writing drugs and writing drugs and I looked up three years later and I was like, none of my
32:00 patients are getting better. and I spent 14 years going to school and this is the most disheartening thing I have ever
32:05 done. Um, and so that’s what brought me into, you know, the world of hormones and it’s so different. So then that
32:12 transitions me to the next question which you brought up. So the next thing that women will say to me is okay well I
32:17 guess I need some hormones. I guess I believe you like you know cuz we do talk about you know it’s good for your bones,
32:23 it’s good for your brain. It’s good for your heart. It’s good for your skin. It’s good for your sex drive. It’s good for everything your mood. And so then
32:30 they say, “Okay, well Dr. Cassie, but my, you know, I had somebody tell me this yesterday. My OB/GYN and my primary
32:38 care doctor told me that hormones cause cancer. That they are 100% sure they cause cancer. Let’s talk about that.” My
32:44 first qu my first response to that, just so you know, was you need a new OB/GYN. And you know, we’ve we have OBGYens that we
32:51 work with and teach with. And so there’s there’s a lot of educated people that have gotten outside all of that old bad
32:58 teaching. Um, but the first thing I want to say is I read a great study that said
33:03 it takes 8 to 13 years for the medical community to change a practice after the
33:10 evidence has been presented that that current practice is no longer um valid.
33:16 So there’s to the thing about cancer. So, as you know, you know, I’m going to
33:21 I’m saying this for your listeners because I know you know all this, but um the Women’s Health Initiative trial is what really messed up hormones for
33:28 women. And it it was the largest research trial to date that focused on women’s health. And the reason they did
33:33 the trial is that they were seeing that the oral synthetic primer estrogen was
33:40 uh showing that women that were on that were having decreased cardiovascular disease. So the primary reason they did
33:46 the trials they wanted to prove that estrogen hormone therapy prevented or
33:52 slowed down um cardiovascular disease and then they also wanted to see check
33:57 safety as it related to invasive breast cancer. So that was the whole reason for the trial. So they had the the two arms
34:03 of the trial that the synthetic estrogen only primarin and the synthetic estrogen plus progesterine which is not the same
34:09 as progesterone prem arm of the trial and they stopped the trial early um
34:17 because in the prem arm there was overwhelming evidence that it increased the risk of Alzheimer’s disease,
34:23 cardiovascular disease and invasive breast cancer. So they stopped the trial just in the prim pro arm. However, the
34:31 media reported and and really applied this concept of a single class effect.
34:37 In other in other words, we threw all hormones out becin
34:45 hormone. And so, what the media purported is that hormones are bad. They’re going to kill you. They’re going
34:51 to cause cancer. They’re going to cause heart attacks. They’re going to cause strokes. And that kind of became the
34:56 religion really starting in 2004 all the way up to even now I I I have a
35:02 published a paper on the WHI. I mean it’s crazy how we haven’t unraveled from that. However, this is and it was on
35:09 Time magazine the front of Time magazine. No, hormones aren’t as safe as we once thought. What’s a woman to do?
35:15 And created all this fear uh and everything. But in 2020 and all of you
35:20 listening, you can find this article online and take it to your primary care provider in
35:26 your OBGYM. um JAMAMA, the Journal of American Medical Association, um
35:31 published a study, same authors as the Women’s Health Initiative trial, and they had looked at all the data over the
35:38 past 20 years in the WHI and actually concluded that the one and only drug
35:45 that has been shown in a double blind placeboc controlled, which is the best of the best of the best trial to prevent
35:54 breast cancer and decrease death from breast cancer was estrogen.
36:00 The worst drug probably is primer, but it’s really not the worst drug, right?
36:05 Because this study actually showed that it protected the it protected the breast and it protected women who might have
36:10 gotten breast cancer from dying from breast cancer. So, that was released in 2020. So, we still have another decade
36:17 before I think the conversation starts changing. But it’s podcasts like this and it’s educating consumers and
36:24 educating clinicians that will get the word out because clearly most doctors
36:30 have not seen that study because they’re giving bad advice just like your patient had yesterday and I see it every day in
36:35 my clinical practice too. So, we can talk a little bit more about breast cancer if you want to go there, but
36:41 absolutely unequivocally, the only hormone drug that has shown in any study
36:47 to increase breast cancer risk is progesterine. Not the same as progesterone. So, I I
36:53 get excited talking about this obviously. And for all my patients listening to this, before you freak out, micronized
37:00 progesterone, which I give you, is not progesterine. So, that’s why I keep saying proestine. So,
37:06 and we talk about that micronized progesterone is not progesterine. And yeah, and so to your point, I mean, I
37:12 say this all the time, estrogen does not cause cancer. Period. Like, full stop in the discussion.
37:18 Estrogen does increase your brain health, increase blood flow to your heart, prevent you from getting heart
37:24 disease, it helps your bones, it helps your skin, it helps lubricate everything. It helps pull your skin up,
37:30 you know. It helps with elasticity. It helps with vaginal lubrication. It helps decrease your risk of UTI. Does it help?
37:35 I mean, all of these things, period. The list goes on and on. Yeah. And so, now, to be fair, can your
37:42 body make bad estrogen? Yes. And that’s kind of outside of this conversation, and I have this conversation with my
37:47 patients. The problem is that our body makes more than one type of estrogen. And so, there are pathways where your estrogen can be metabolized into bad
37:54 estrogen, and that’s why some people end up with breast cancer. But that’s not what we’re giving you when we replace
38:00 your estrogen. And to your point, there have been studies, I tell people this all the time. There have been studies
38:05 that show you are better off after breast cancer on estrogen. You will live longer. Your mortality rate will
38:11 decrease. So you have a breast cancer, even if it’s ERP positive. You have your treatment for your breast cancer. You go
38:17 back on estrogen. Those people live longer, are happier, have, you know, lower mortality, more lower morbidity,
38:23 and way better quality of life. And I tell people this all the time and I have so many women who come to me now in
38:29 Oklahoma City and I’m happy to take care of them who have breast cancer who have seen doctors who are miserable you know
38:35 they can’t think they’re you know they tell me I I have women who tell me I would rather die than live like this and they’ve lived like this for 5 years and
38:42 no one will give them estrogen and I’m like that is not you know as a provider that is not your decision to make like
38:48 no first you’re supposed to do no harm but if you’re not doing any harm for God’s sakes make somebody better you
38:53 know like you don’t get to be the dictator of their healthcare. Um, so it’s just it’s very frustrating and and
39:00 to so to your point then hopefully in 2030 we’ll be having a different conversation.
39:10 Well, and the other side of that that you’ve said so many great things, but
39:15 the other piece of that study is that study actually showed estrogen to be
39:20 preventative of breast cancer. So women that were on estrogen therapy early and stayed on it had lower rates of breast
39:27 cancer than women that didn’t go on breast cancer or went off on estrogen or went off of of their estrogen. So that’s
39:35 that’s a really important thing to understand this whole concept of estrogen. And you said I know we’re not
39:40 going to talk about it in this but I just want to plant the seed and and nurture water this a little bit because you dropped it. Um there are ways that
39:47 our body metabolizes hormone that hormones that can increase the risk of
39:53 you know um cancers, breast cancer or um hormone type cancers. But that has
39:59 everything to do with our gut health, our stress. I mean all of the things that we talked about. So there’s things
40:05 we can do to mitigate even that from happening um that I know is outside the
40:10 realm of this conversation, but I don’t want people to just think, oh well, there’s a fear factor then. Oh, well,
40:16 estrogen, but what if I’m one of those people that my body metabolizes it this way and uh you know, it’s not that.
40:22 There’s ways and you know this and this is the functional medicine piece of what you do. You don’t ever, I’m sure, just I
40:28 know you don’t just replace hormones in somebody without having a conversation about how that’s metabolizing and give
40:34 them help with metabolizing it in a healthy way. And not only do I do that, Dr. But we
40:41 also check in and anyone who is concerned, I check estrogen levels. And I don’t know why oncologists don’t do
40:47 this. I don’t know why primary care doctors don’t do this. Like I tell women all the time, if you’re highly concerned, let’s just see what your
40:52 baseline estrone level is. And if it’s high, I’m like, okay, you’re a bad metabolizer. We need to figure out why.
40:58 Let’s clean out your gut. Let’s fix your sleep. Let’s look at your cortisol. And this is why it’s really important to go
41:03 to someone who understands hormones, right? Because I don’t care if you’re at the highest risk. Myself personally,
41:08 I’ll just tell you, I have a huge family history of breast cancer. Ginormous. You will pry estrogen out of my dead hands
41:15 because I have done a Dutch test. I know how I metabolize my hormones. When my and I check it on myself and when my
41:21 estrone, if it starts to go up, then I’m like, okay, I have a conversation with myself. What am I doing? Do I need to
41:26 change some things? Do I like I will take estrogen until the day I die? because it I mean you know and so there
41:34 the frustrating thing is like even if you are at higher risk or even if you’re making estrone which is the bad estrogen
41:39 there are ways to prevent this right there’s so many ways we can help you metabolize your estrogen better so
41:45 that’s the frustrating thing too is like it shouldn’t I mean these are conversations that we have to get more
41:50 comfortable having with people and as a as a patient if you have this conversation with a provider and they
41:56 have no idea if you ask a provider to check your estone level and they look at you like you’re crazy. Find a different
42:02 provider. I mean, I don’t know what else to say. Like, yeah, that’s right.
42:08 I love that you said that because estrone is so so inflammatory and it
42:13 it’s the cause of so much, you know, but um that is such an important piece of the equation. And you know, also I share
42:20 with my patients often, I kind of do a reverse consent and I’ll say I’ll say,
42:25 “Okay, here’s the things that you’re at high risk for if you don’t replace your
42:30 estrogen.” Cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, exponentially. Colon cancer, obviously, osteoporosis,
42:37 that’s kind of a no-brainer, strokes. I mean, there’s there’s a role for estrogen in preventing stroke or
42:43 preventing damage post stroke. So, there’s just so much evidence. and I’ll be 58 this year and your to your point I
42:49 will die with an estrogen pellet in in my butt. You know you if just there is
42:54 no age that I will stop doing it because the the vitality and the disease prevention is is it’s indisputable
43:00 really. Yeah, it is. And so just the education piece is is so important, you know. And
43:06 and kind of the last thing I wanted to transition and ask you before we wrap up is so people say to me, “Okay, Dr.
43:11 Cassie, let’s do estrogen.” And so we get them on estrogen and they’re doing great and you know we monitor them and
43:17 then around 60 they come in and say well my doctor you know I saw my doctor this is my favorite part. I saw my primary
43:24 care doctor and they said since I’ve been seeing you I’ve been doing fabulous you know my blood pressure’s down. I’ve lost weight. My cholesterol is down. I
43:30 look fabulous. I’m you know my joints don’t hurt. That’s the other one. Joint. Like my joints don’t hurt. I can
43:35 exercise. But they said you know I’ve been on it for seven or eight years now and I’m 60 so I should probably get off
43:41 of it. I’m like, “Okay, let’s have this conversation.” So, at what age should we get off of our hormones, Dr. Terry?
43:47 Yeah. Never. As long as never. As long as you’re breathing.
43:54 Yeah. So, the bad information about lowest dose for shortest amount of time,
44:01 which by the way went away in 2017. Most doctors just don’t know that. Um, came from again the Women’s Health Initiative
44:07 trial. Um and they where they noticed that there was a 10-year window of
44:12 opportunity that women should, you know, get hormones and stay on them only within 10 years of menopause. But that
44:18 was found to be only true in the progesterine arm. If everybody can just wrap their mind around the progesterine
44:25 arm of the trial was the bad part. Even the synthetic estrogen arm, everything was good. there was a slight increased
44:31 risk of blood clots and strokes because of the oral modality, but everything else um there there was just no issues
44:37 with it. And so the North American Menopause Society actually put out a new guideline in 2017 that said based on all
44:45 the data they’ve been looking at since WHI, they realized that the WHI wasn’t representative of the average woman that
44:53 transitions through menopause and that will go to a doctor’s office to get treatment for. And they based that
44:58 recommendation on the population in the WHI were um over 30% of them were obese.
45:05 Um somewhere close to 70% had some sort of metabolic coorbidity and they were
45:11 over 70. Many of them were past an age that you would typically start hormones on. So it wasn’t really a representation
45:19 of the average population that um women seek help for menopausal symptoms. And
45:25 what they realized is there were more risks of death and dying in the group of
45:30 women that went off their hormones than the women that stayed on their hormones. And so what they changed in their
45:37 recommendation is it’s no longer a lowest dose to for shortest amount of time, but they actually shifted and said
45:43 it really needs to be a conversation between an educated clinician and the patient and a decision made based on
45:50 that patient’s unique risk profile. co-orbidities, what other diseases do they have, what are they trying to
45:56 accomplish, all of those factors, and then make a decision with that patient as the best route forward, which I I
46:03 always say, thank you, NAMS, for giving us permission to do what we’re trying to do anyway. But that’s where that
46:08 guideline came from. It’s been gone since 2017. So, if any of your listeners hear that, um, they can educate their
46:15 doctors that that’s no longer the case. Yeah. And the key there is an educated provider. And to your point, I just want
46:20 to say this, too. So, in prep for this podcast, I reviewed some stuff yesterday. In my personal practice, I
46:28 have about currently 2,000 patients on hormone replacement therapy and I would
46:34 and 95% of those are women. So, in the last one year, I have had seven patients
46:43 diagnosed with breast cancer, but three of them were not on hormones. So, four were. of the four that were on hormones,
46:50 two of them had a biopsy of a DCIS, which is not even really a breast cancer, but we won’t go there. Uh, when
46:57 they got a lumpctomy, they were like, “Oh, wait. That’s actually not even a cancer. No shit.” So, two people have
47:03 had breast cancer on hormones. Three not. But I to be fair, I have way more people on hormones than not on hormones.
47:10 So, two people in the last year. If you look at the number of women who should have breast cancer in a year, I mean
47:17 it’s almost one in four, right? Like 25% of people get breast cancer. And so what I want to do, and maybe you we could do
47:23 this together. I want to pull a bunch of people who do hormones correctly and pull the data of how many people get
47:28 breast cancer. And by the way, both of those women are back on hormones post they were treated appropriately. They
47:34 both came to me and said, “I cannot live without my hormones. 100% I’ll give them back to you. We’re checking estrogens.
47:39 We did Dutch tests. Like they’re doing great.” Um, but I would like to pull data with people who do this and see how
47:45 many patients that actually take hormones get breast cancer versus the general population because I feel like
47:50 I’m very lucky that I don’t have to deal with a ton of breast cancer when I get people on the right hormones to begin
47:56 with as well. Same. Same. I mean, I can probably count on two h hands in 16 years that we’ve
48:03 been doing this therapy in our practice and um the number of breast cancers that we’ve we’ve diagnosed and the and the
48:09 majority of them actually we diagnosed them early on um in their treatment
48:15 regime simply because we were you know doing the diagnostics and to your point
48:21 um getting all the right tests and and looking at things and all of them resolved um because they were caught
48:27 early. Um, so yeah, it’s a it’s a very it’s I I I would love to officially
48:34 collect that data. I’ve unofficially collected that data in my practice and have seen the same thing. The the rates
48:40 of uh breast cancer incidents are much much lower than the general population or what’s been reported in the in the
48:46 studies in the general population and um Dr. Rebecca Glazier did a study like that in her in her population as well
48:53 and showed a much less um and she does same thing. We the difference is she
48:58 doesn’t really do estrogen in her patients. So it would be fun to do one with you because we do estrogen. So I
49:04 think that makes a big difference to look at that data. Yeah. And I think it’s because our patients in general become healthier.
49:10 They might not be as healthy when they come to us, but you and I I mean we’re working on making them healthy. And when you make someone healthy, I tell my
49:16 patients this all the time, when you let your body heal itself and you become healthy, then things like cancer, I
49:22 mean, your body is going to have the ability to see that when cells start to mutate to start fighting that. Like the
49:27 two women that I had that had this DCIS that got scared into all these things. I told both of them, you are both
49:32 extremely healthy. I have worked with you for years. Like I, you know, I told both of them to go actually get a QT
49:39 scan by Jen, Dr. Jen Simmons. I said, “I guarantee you if you get a QT scan, there’s nothing there and you don’t even
49:45 need to have surgery because if you had a little cancer, your body probably already fought it.” And in both cases,
49:50 that was the case because when you’re really healthy, your body’s going to take care of a lot of that. And so
49:56 that’s why I think our patients have less cancer. You know, when your gut’s right, when you’re sleeping right, when your immune system’s right, like when
50:02 something changes in your body, your body’s resilient. It’s made to be like, “Ah, attack ch, you know, let’s get rid
50:07 of you. Let’s autophagize you cancer cells.” So, it’s just really interesting and that’s the fun part about about
50:14 medicine and about our body, the human body. Like, it’s just so resilient. So, it’s
50:22 by the way designed to have a lot of estrogen perfectly as a young
50:27 just saying it’s right. It’s become my favorite
50:32 hormone. So, um so I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate so much, you know, you talking to me about all this. I have
50:39 three questions that I want to ask you um to kind of wrap up and then when we’re done with these questions, you can
50:45 tell everyone where they can get your book. So, everyone loves these questions. Don’t overthink it. Super easy. But the first question is, what is
50:54 one food that is most beneficial and why?
51:01 You have to pick one just because remember this and then they’re like, “Okay, that’s what I should eat.” Like I have so many people that reach out to me
51:07 like, “Oh, this person said this, so I chose this over this. It’s fun.” Just
51:14 I’ll tell you, my current obsession is eorn sourdough bread. I mean, I I’ve
51:20 been I’ve been researching this um eorn ancient wheat. And um I’m not a bread
51:25 person. I’m not a pasta person. You know, we’ve we’ve got it’s messed up our guts. I think our wheat in this
51:31 modernized wheat is a huge problem with our guts. But man, the more I’ve researched it and started utilizing it
51:38 and and making it, it has been amazing. Um, for me personally, um, and then even
51:44 my family, one of my granddaughters suffers really bad from eczema. That’s
51:49 clearing up. Um, gut issues and my other daughter have cleared up. So, I there’s something to be said. Research Eorn. E I
51:57 N K O R N. It’s my current obsession and it’s pretty fabulous. So, but there’s so
52:03 many. I I can’t believe e i n k o r n. I I you stumped me with the one thing. But
52:11 right now, I mean, it is a super protein. Um the the the protein content
52:17 and the um anti-inflammatory, the gluten structure, everything. It’s it’s kind of the perfect food. And we’ve it’s it’s
52:24 was almost extinct actually. And um the woman that revitalized it actually was
52:29 looking for an answer for her daughter who was suffering terribly from eczema
52:34 um and also hormone hormonal type of stuff and she was 13 and anxiety and depression and things like that. So and
52:40 discovered it and it was life-changing. Flipped it and I have put patients on just a just recently another girl same
52:48 thing rashes they couldn’t figure it out. They cleaned up her diet, got rid of gluten, got rid of dairy, everything
52:53 couldn’t figure it out. Um, we fixed her gut and they shifted and started using Eorn and that kid turned around within
53:00 three weeks. It is amazing. So anyway, EORN is my short answer.
53:06 Okay, I’m going to find it. What is one thing that anyone can do that will improve their health that is 100% free?
53:14 Sleep. Yep, I would agree. It’s so powerful. And then the last question is if what is
53:22 one thing you wish you would have known about your health 25 years ago that you would have done differently if you would
53:28 have known? I wish I understood the gut. Um I I
53:35 really believe like Hypocrates says all disease begins in the gut. And I think that’s just if we can just pay attention
53:41 to that one thing it will cover a multitude of sins. Completely agree. Me too. I used to eat Taco Bell and McDonald’s all the time.
53:47 Oh, listen. My favorite was um super tacos from Jack in the Box. I mean, the
53:53 most toxic food probably on the planet. Of course, when I was eating them, it was less chemically laden. I’m surely
53:59 they were more healthy than now. Mine was bean burritos with diet Dr. Pepper. I would have like three bean
54:05 burritos and a like 4 oz diet Dr. Pepper. That got me through medical school. So,
54:10 and the diet Dr. Pepper cancelled out the bad calories from the bean burrito for sure. 100%.
54:17 Okay. So, tell everyone where they can get your book. Uh, Hormone Havoc, you can find it on
54:23 Amazon, but it’s sold online in all the different venues, but Amazon is um is where you can find it the most easily.
54:31 Well, thank you so much for your time. I enjoyed our conversation. It was fun. Appreciate Appreciate you.
54:39 I hope you guys enjoyed this week’s podcast as much as I enjoyed recording it. I do this for you guys. I do it to
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55:26 who you want me to interview you, what questions you have because I love helping educate you and answer all those
55:32 questions. Also, please keep in mind Modern Endocrine now has a license in 39
55:37 states. So, we are working on 50, but we are at 39. If you would like to be a
55:42 patient and discuss any sort of issues that you have that we could help address, we would be honored to do that.
55:48 If you are in Oklahoma, you can come to our clinic, but if you’re outside of Oklahoma, we’ll do it virtually. We can
55:54 even do virtual visits in Oklahoma as well. So, it can all be done through teleaalth. And we are happy to help you
55:59 discuss any range of things we do, whether it be just gut health, just hormone health, weight loss. If you want
56:06 a whole transformation, if you want to do preventative medicine longevity, we would be more than thrilled to help make
56:13 you a happier and healthier version of yourself. Make sure that you join us next week for the next episode. Have a
56:20 great week. [Music] The information presented, including any materials discussed, referenced or
56:27 linked within this podcast, are for general educational purposes only, not
56:32 the practice of medicine. No doctor patient relationship is formed from you listening to this podcast or utilizing
56:39 any of the information provided. I am a doctor, but I am not talking to you as your doctor. The information provided is
56:46 not intended to diagnose or treat health problems or take the place of the professional medical care provided by
56:53 your doctor. If you are experiencing any health problems, including problems you believe have been touched upon in any
57:00 respect within this podcast, you should consult your doctor about the problems without delay. You may ask your doctor
57:07 whether he or she believes the information I have provided would be helpful to you, but you should still
57:12 consult your doctor immediately and follow his or her medical advice as your treating physician. I’m just here to
57:18 provide you basic knowledge about the issues we discuss so you are more aware of them and can better discuss them with
57:25 your doctor. That’s why we call it back to the basics. Join me on the next episode as we continue our journey.
57:33 [Music]
Disclaimer:
The information presented including any materials discussed, referenced, or linked within this podcast are for general educational purposes only, not the practice of medicine.
No doctor-patient relationship is formed from you listening to this podcast or utilizing any of the information provided.
I am a doctor, but I am not talking to you as your doctor. The information provided is not intended to diagnose or treat health problems or take the place of the professional medical care provided by your doctor.
If you are experiencing any health problems, including problems you believe have been touched upon in any respect within this podcast, you should consult your doctor about the problems without delay. You may ask your doctor whether he or she believes the information I have provided would be helpful to you, but you should still consult your doctor immediately and follow his or her medical advice as your treating physician.
I’m just here to provide you with basic knowledge about the issues we discuss so you are more aware of them and can better discuss them with your doctor.
That’s why we call it Back to the Basics. Join me on the next episode as we continue our journey.