Unlocking the Mystery of Chronic Fatigue: A Holistic Approach to Healing
In this episode of “Hormones, Metabolism, and You,” Dr. Cassie Smith and chronic fatigue expert Alex Howard explore the complex causes of chronic fatigue, including hormonal imbalances, digestive issues, immune dysfunction, trauma, and mindset. They discuss the importance of a holistic approach, emphasizing self-awareness, healthy boundaries, and self-care. Sharing personal experiences and practical tips, they empower listeners to become advocates for their own healing, highlighting that recovery is possible by addressing both physical and emotional factors in the journey toward improved energy and well-being.
🔗 Books Mentioned:
✅ Why Me: https://amzn.to/4dPjDFH
✅ Decode Your Fatigue: https://amzn.to/3FPQnBT
✅ It’s Not Your Fault: https://amzn.to/4dNUueh
Cassie info and links:
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Guest info and links:
Alex Howard is Founder & Chairman of The Optimum Health Clinic (OHC), one of the world’s leading integrative medicine clinics. With a team of 25 full time practitioners supporting thousands of patients in 50+ countries, the OHC team integrate a therapeutic coaching approach with functional nutrition.
Alex is creator of the Therapeutic Coaching methodology, and since March 2020, has been documenting his therapeutic work with real life patients via his In Therapy with Alex Howard YouTube series. In the last few years, Alex has created some of the largest online conferences in the health and mind–body markets; including the world leading Trauma Super Conference. Alex’s online conferences have been attended by over a million people.
Alex has published academic research in publications such as the British Medical Journal Open and Psychology and Health, and is the author of the books Why Me? and Decode Your Fatigue. Alex’s latest book, It’s Not Your Fault – Why childhood trauma shapes you and how to break free is available now.
Blog/Transcription:
0:03 welcome to this week’s episode of Hormones Metabolism and You I’m your host Dr Cassie Smith I’m a functional
0:09 medicine endocrinologist based out of Oklahoma City If you are one of the millions of people who are struggling
0:15 with chronic fatigue this is the episode you don’t want to miss Today I have
0:20 brought on a chronic fatigue expert and we dive into today all the causes of
0:26 chronic fatigue Now the interesting thing about chronic fatigue is that a lot of people get this diagnosis chronic
0:33 fatigue syndrome from providers They get put in this box They get given
0:39 medications and then just kind of pushed on but they never get better And so they
0:44 see provider after provider after provider and they do all of these things
0:51 and they stay tired And a lot of times they get frustrated and then they just
0:56 kind of give up And so I see these people they come to Modern Endocrine
1:01 they’ve seen tons of providers no one has been able to make them feel better And so I really wanted to dive into
1:08 chronic fatigue for you guys and let you realize that it’s a bigger thing than you actually think So I went and found
1:15 an expert on chronic fatigue So I have Alex Howard He does summits on this He
1:22 has an entire clinic based around this and he’s done lots of research into chronic fatigue So today I asked him
1:29 tell me about fatigue Tell me about the mental fatigue about cellular fatigue
1:35 emotional fatigue physical fatigue How are they different How are they related
1:40 What causes these different types of fatigues What is the most common fatigue
1:45 that you see in people What is the most common type of fatigue people have that they don’t even realize So sometimes
1:51 guys you have things driving your fatigue and you don’t even realize you have it And so we talked about these
1:57 different boxes that he looks at with fatigue He looks at not only your hormones which a lot of people know
2:03 about now He looks at your digestive system because there are abnormalities
2:09 in your digestive system that can lead to fatigue Your immune system So when
2:14 you actually are chronically stressed or you have a chronic autoimmune condition it requires more energy And so we talked
2:20 about that how your nervous system plays a role how your mindset and actual
2:26 trauma plays a role into your fatigue And until you understand all the different pieces he calls them the
2:32 jigsaw puzzle pieces Until we understand all of these pieces and how they can contribute to fatigue it’s going to be
2:39 almost impossible to actually feel better Now sometimes people do he says you know get some sort of treatment and
2:46 they do get better their chronic fatigue gets better but then a lot of times we fall back and we become fatigued again
2:51 and we don’t know why and so he explains how all of this works you know he talks
2:57 about cellular energy production and how that is a huge component of your mitochondria but also your mitochondria
3:03 have something called a danger signaling response and how you have to balance this danger signaling response with your
3:10 cellular energy production in order to make sure people don’t feel chronically fatigued So it was a
3:16 very amazingly interesting episode It’s packed full of stuff So I hope that you
3:22 guys find this beneficial And we did also talk about toxic self-t talk and
3:27 how how you treat yourself is very important for your fatigue as well So Alex Howard is the founder and chairman
3:34 of the Optum Health Clinic It’s called OC one of the world’s leading
3:39 integrative medicine clinics It’s based out of London He has a team of 25
3:44 full-time practitioners supporting thousands of patients in 50 plus countries They use integrative
3:52 therapeutic coaching with functional nutrition Alex is the creator of the
3:57 therapeutic coaching method and since March of 2020 he’s been documenting his
4:02 therapeutic work with real with real life patients via his in therapy with
4:08 Alex Howard YouTube series It’s very interesting You should check it out In the last few years Alex has created some
4:16 of the largest online conferences in the mental and mindbody markets including
4:22 the worldleading trauma super conference Alex’s online conferences have been
4:27 attended by over a million people He’s also published academic research in
4:33 things like the British Medical Journal Open and Psychology and Health and he’s
4:38 the author of books of the following books Why Me and Decode Your Fatigue
4:45 Alex’s latest book It’s Not Your Fault: Why Childhood Trauma Shapes You and How
4:51 to Break Free is also available now So I hope you guys enjoy listening to this
4:56 episode cuz it was fascinating recording So thank you for joining us today on this episode of Hormones Metabolism and
5:03 You I’m really excited about this interview I have with me today Alex Howard and he’s going to talk to us
5:09 about fatigue and we’re going to kind of talk about fatigue in a multiaceted level We’re going to talk about how
5:15 trauma affects fatigue how your nervous system affects fatigue and just fatigue in general So I want to start Alex by
5:23 having you explain to the listeners how you got here why you know so much about
5:29 fatigue and kind of what you do every day Yeah Well firstly Ky thank you for having me This definitely wasn’t the
5:34 career plan for my life Um I found myself in my teenage years suffering from me otherwise known as chronic
5:40 fatigue syndrome and really spent the first couple of years waiting for the
5:46 medical world to find the answers and going to see nutritionists naturopaths
5:51 medical doctors and consistently being told “Look you know you’re just going to
5:57 have to learn to live with this.” And when you’re 16 years old and being told that this is going to be this is it for
6:04 the rest of your life was hard And I reached the point that it wasn’t that I
6:10 was actively planning how I was going to end my life I just couldn’t I the
6:16 thought of continuing living on the path that I was on just seemed impossible And
6:22 I had a conversation really where I was helped to realize that if I wanted the circumstances of my life to be different
6:29 then I was going to have to be the one to change them And for the next 5 years
6:35 I I wish I could say that I found the answer What I found was there’s not one
6:41 answer but there’s many answers And for me that was a combination of
6:47 understanding how my mind related to my body but also how my body related to my
6:54 mind And I think one of the I think for a lot of people suffering from debilitating chronic illnesses one of
7:01 the challenges is that you go and see a practitioner that has a particular way
7:06 of working and then for them that that’s the whole jigsaw and that was really
7:12 difficult because I was so desperate at the time that I would read the testimonials I would start the protocol
7:19 and I would have this sort of like oh my god this this is going to be the thing that changes
7:25 and then would have the crash of the disappointment and the frustration and
7:31 but over time what I came to realize is it’s a jigsaw like we have to decode
7:37 what’s happening in our physical body and then be able to map the pathway to
7:43 recovery from there and that was a fiveyear journey it was a challen it was
7:49 seven years in total so two years waiting for someone to find the answers and then five years on on on that path
7:55 But on the other side of it I couldn’t go back to just being on a whatever what
8:01 a normal life is but whatever a normal life is I’d had such a extraordinary
8:06 experience and discovered what is really possible when it comes to to one’s
8:13 healing journey I’d gone from that first couple of years totally debilitating
8:19 fatigue muscle pains dizziness um being totally exhausted to the point all you
8:25 want to do is sleep and then you can’t sleep and then you wake up the next morning you think is this is this all
8:30 that there is to getting back to not just not having symptoms anymore but
8:37 having optimum health that meant being able to to exercise and to to work and do all the things that that I wanted to
8:44 be able to do And so on the other side I set up the clinic that I had wanted to
8:50 exist in the years that I had been ill And that was and that is now we’re talking 20some years later the Optimum
8:57 Health Clinic And I would say a few of the things that were for me defining in
9:03 terms of my own recovery journey which have really influenced the way that we work as clinicians and and the the sort
9:09 of approach that we take is that the approach has to be personalized We
9:15 recognize that everyone’s pathway is different You and I were just touching that before we started um recording It
9:21 has to be evidence-based Although of course the evidence base is growing and is evolving And a lot of things that we
9:28 do clinically and I imagine it’s also true for you and and your team are on the edges of what of what mainstream
9:34 medicine is doing but we’re developing and we’re we’re evolving and growing that But it also has to be integrative
9:42 that you can’t just work with one piece of the jigsaw And you know in a way you
9:48 know part of how I see it is that to have the best probability of being
9:54 effective in in working with with the people we work with is we need to be able to see as many pieces of that
10:01 jigsaw as possible In fact my my second to last book which was a a book on
10:06 complex fatigue conditions was called Decode Your Fatigue Because of course to be able to map the path to recovery we
10:12 first got to decode well what’s actually happening in in that individual Yeah So
10:17 I’m sure that lots of people listening to this right now can relate to that I feel like I have a lot of patients like
10:24 this I end up seeing a lot of people with you know I don’t know that you necessarily call them chronic fatigue but they have lots of diagnoses So
10:30 they’ve been given diagnoses by lots of physicians or providers but then the
10:36 treatment option for those they don’t actually get better So sometimes it is just you know I see people all the time
10:41 where I’m like I don’t know that you have rheumatoid arthritis I don’t know that you have you know all these
10:46 conditions that they say you have IBD or Crohn’s or it’s sometimes I think it’s
10:51 we really need to decode what’s going on underneath So like how are you sleeping and you know do you have trauma what is
10:58 your mental state like things like that And so but the word fatigue I mean I
11:04 would say that the number one two and three things that people come to our clinic complaining of is fatigue weight
11:10 loss and the third is either fatigue and weight loss again right so like everyone can relate to that and some of it I
11:17 think is our chronic or is our crazy modern lifestyle as well right where it’s just like go go go and and rest is
11:24 never had I think you know you’re in Ireland right you’re in Europe London
11:29 okay So you guys are a little better about it than we are in America but
11:35 still I feel like the modern the modern lifestyle you know leaves a lot uh to be
11:40 desired for just rest and recovery and just being in nature I I don’t know if
11:45 we are better than you I I I think I think we’re we’re aspiring a bit too much to be to be like America in terms
11:51 of the go go Um but anyway yeah So I you know so I do find all this
11:57 fascinating and I like people to be able to get different perspectives on this And so for fatigue in general I mean I
12:03 feel like there’s lots of different types of fatigue right I feel like there’s mental fatigue there’s physical fatigue there’s emotional fatigue
12:10 there’s actual real like cellular biochemical quantum physics fatigue
12:16 right Because our body is actually made of electrons and cells that move with water and magnetic forces and things
12:22 like that So you can get into fatigue in lots of different ways but I guess tell me or tell the listeners like what are
12:28 the most common causes of fatigue that you find that maybe the most common
12:33 causes that people realize and then some common causes that people don’t even realize are causing this debilitating
12:39 fatigue I think the first thing is to really define what it is that we’re talking
12:46 about right Because a diagnosis of let’s say someone has a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome that isn’t really a
12:53 diagnosis that’s a label for symptoms because what’s really happened is you’ve gone and seen your physician and say I
12:59 feel tired and I feel tired all the time so they’ve then said you have chronic which means ongoing fatigue and they’ve
13:06 added the word syndrome at the end but it that isn’t that’s really just a name for the symptoms that you have and to
13:15 have effective intervention we need to well we need to understand well what is it that’s
13:21 causing those symptoms And again as you sort of alluded to there’s a bunch of
13:26 different ways of thinking about that and talking about that But one way to think about it is looking at it from a cellular energy production perspective
13:33 like are your mitochondria functioning effectively And if they’re not or they’re not recycling effectively then
13:38 effectively what’s happening is you’ve got like a battery which is not properly
13:44 rechar like a rechargeable battery that’s not really recharging So you’re working with a diminished amount of
13:49 resource in the first place So then and in fact if we go back about 18 years ago
13:55 now to the early years of the optimum health clinic we started doing ATP profiles or or mitochondrial function
14:02 testing with a lot of our patients and initially it was well well we just need to give raw ingredients to help make
14:08 mitochondria and so we’re giving everyone you know dribbos and CoQ10 and magnesium whatever it is as raw
14:14 ingredients to help the manufacturer of of cellular energy and then what we started to notice was some patients did
14:21 well with that and other patients didn’t do well But other patients who did better for a while and it was it was
14:27 sort of like you’re helping the system but you’re kind of treating the symptom You’re not really addressing what’s
14:33 causing those deficiencies in the first place Which then goes back to really the essence of your question which is that
14:39 there’s a whole bunch of factors that can cause your system to be depleted or
14:44 they can impact upon mitochondrial function One way that I like to look at it is
14:50 look at it from the perspective of different bodily systems So and I know
14:55 this this this is this has a lot of crossovers with with with how you you approach these these these these conditions and how you’re working them
15:01 as well But we can look at your digestive system If we are not
15:06 metabolizing or breaking down effectively and taking nutrients from food we are not providing our
15:13 mitochondria with the raw ingredients to make energy So of course that that’s a whole a whole piece of this jigsaw And
15:20 you know there’s a whole load of things we can be looking at there We can be looking at small intestinal bacterial overgrowth We can be looking at gut
15:26 disposes more generally We can be looking at um parasites We can come back to these people Let’s just sort of I
15:31 want to give give the map and then we sort of come back So we can look at digestive function We also then need to look at hormone function And I know this
15:38 has been a big part again of of of your work But one of the biggest impacts of our
15:45 natural energy production being depleted is our hormones get stressed to
15:51 compensate One of the ways I think about particularly our stress hormones is they’re like our our backup or our
15:57 reserve tank So our main tank of energy goes down in kick our hormones And if
16:02 our energy production is not working well our hormones are working harder and harder to compensate And then we have
16:07 the impacts and the depletion of what’s happening with our hormones Of course then we can factor in things like
16:13 menopause and we can factor in different chapters in in one’s life where there also are impacts happening to hormones
16:18 We’ve then got our immune system right And this is another whole big big piece of this jigsaw that if we have lime or
16:26 we have co- infections or we have toxic mold whatever else may be going on These
16:32 are all loads and impacts on our immune system and it takes a lot of energy to
16:38 run our immune system This is this is why someone gets the common cold You feel more tired right Like I I had a
16:45 cold a few weeks ago and he did a nap in the afternoon It’s not a normal thing in my life because you got less energy
16:51 Because if you think about it if you’ve got let’s say a 100 units of energy a day and normally your immune system needs 20 and you’re fighting a cold and
16:58 it needs 60 that’s 40 less units for all the other things that you’re doing in in your day-to-day life And so if one’s
17:04 bodily is body is ongoingly fighting immune loads then there’s a there’s a
17:09 stealing of energy that’s that’s happening to be able to function that to support that So we’ve got our digestive
17:15 system we’ve got our hormones we’ve got our immune system One of the major pieces in in my body of work is also
17:21 looking at our nervous system function looking at the impacts of childhood trauma looking at the impacts of
17:28 normalizing to being in what I call a maladaptive stress response So a healthy
17:34 stress response is you know you and I walking down the street in London We don’t see or hear the you know the buses
17:40 now electric We don’t hear the the big red London bus We then jump out the way because we need to get away from the
17:46 threat or the danger We get a big hit of adrenaline and cortisol Our stress hormones designed to help us respond to
17:52 the danger to the threat And we’ve basically got three choices We can fight
17:58 i.e move towards the threat We can fight to get away from the threat Or we can freeze and shut and shut down and hope
18:05 the threat passes us by With the bus example we’re probably not going to fight the bus So we’re going to have to fly We’re going to get out get out of
18:10 the way of of the danger Then you know 10 20 30 minutes later you know we’re sat in a nice London tea room having a
18:17 cup of tea and our nervous systems have regulated and those those that excess of stress hormones has gradually kind of
18:22 come out of our of our bloodstream and we’ve come back to to homeostasis or come back to balance The problem is when
18:29 whether it’s impacts of childhood trauma whether it is coping strategies we’ve developed in response to those traumas
18:34 things like defining our selfworth by what we do and what we achieve So we’re always trying to push ourselves beyond our edges and our limits But when we are
18:42 constantly in a state of stress often we don’t realize We normalize to the state
18:48 that we’re in So if you’re in a state of stress consistently you get normalized to to being in in that state that over
18:54 time again is taking a huge amount of energy to resource and to fuel that ongoing stress response So to go back to
19:02 your original question to effectively treat fatigue related conditions we first need to decode what’s going on
19:09 Is the it may well be that our mitochondria are impacted but is the driver of that our digestive system Is
19:15 it our hormones Is it our immune system Is it our nervous system It may be all of those factors but we need to have
19:20 that jigsaw And to go back to then you know your original question about my own recovery the realization that you can’t
19:27 just target one of those pieces We’ve got to decode the bigger picture to then be able to effectively map that path to
19:33 recovery So I think those are all very great points I have one question for you though So you said hormones digestive
19:40 immune system nervous system Do you put mindset into the nervous system or is that something separate We put it we
19:47 slight differently So yes we we would include that within nervous system but then we also would talk about the things
19:52 you need to do to get well and we would talk about mindset as being part of that And just a quick quick comment on that
19:58 Often initially when one is suffering from a complex or a fatigue related
20:03 condition Most of us have been conditioned that you get ill you go to the doctor and they give you the drug or
20:10 they give you the treatment They they do the thing that that makes you feel better And I think I imagine the
20:17 majority of people listening to this are listening because they’ve tried that and didn’t work So part of the particularly
20:24 the chronic illness recovery journey is one has to become in increasingly responsible for for supporting oneself
20:32 and navigating one healing journey We talk about it as the idea of becoming captain of the ship of your own healing
20:39 journey Doesn’t mean you have to do all the jobs on the ship but you do need to have that overall responsibility for for
20:44 what’s happening Yeah And so same thing with trauma Do you put trauma in this like nervous system bucket or does that
20:51 have its own Yeah we we we Yeah we would put trauma as a driver of nervous system
20:59 dysregulation So we we would if we’re going to we’re going to use buckets it would sit in the same bucket Yeah So I
21:05 think just kind of looking through this and as people listen you know one of the things that I find that people are just
21:11 you know when they come to me and they say “Oh I’m fatigued.” they they come saying you know thankfully we have all
21:18 this education around hormones and thyroid like I want you to address my thyroid I want you to address my
21:23 hormones you know I want you to look at my insulin maybe even if if they know about insulin resistance So a lot of
21:29 people have some of this knowledge which is great This is wonderful Social media has allowed people to learn this But the
21:35 things that I find that they miss that are just glaring are some of the things that you pointed out So digestive
21:42 support right So you know I can figure out whether someone’s actually digesting their food and their nutrients properly
21:49 usually after about 5 minutes of just listening to how they talk right Like are they somebody who’s like all over
21:54 the place really quick What do you do for work You know what does your normal day look like How do you eat So I think
22:00 one of the things that’s alarming to me is like we have lost the sense at least in America of you know when you have a
22:08 meal you sit down you’re focused on your meal you chew your food you have it with
22:15 people you love like it’s a time where you’re calm and you’re socializing and you’re actually you know your
22:21 parasympathetic system where your rest and you know your relax system is supposed to be high and you’re eating
22:27 food so that your body can actually absorb I would say that 95% of Americans that I
22:33 see at least in my clinic are eating while in their car walking around doing
22:38 something watching TV on the phone charting on their patients whatever
22:44 playing on their phone Like we’ve just lost these tiny little things that are like so important to digestion right So
22:51 there are so many people I see that are even morbidly obese that are chronically
22:56 malnourished because their body is not absorbing the actual nutrients they need from their food So I think that’s one
23:02 thing that people don’t realize when they’re tired Yes you are tired if you’re not giving your body the
23:07 nutrients that it needs right to actually be absorbed from your food And you may think oh well some you know some
23:13 people say well I eat blueberries every morning or I eat a banana every morning you know but if let’s say you’re doing
23:19 that and you’re not you’re in a sympathetic state and not a parasympathetic state that one antioxidant food that you think that
23:26 you’re nourishing your body with might not have even been absorbed from your from your bloodstream right Or from your
23:31 gut And so I think that’s pretty alarming that a lot of people don’t put that together And then to your point as
23:36 well I mean you know people have a lot of the hormone but the immune system like when you’re chronically in the red
23:42 I tell my patients you know if you’re a car and you you know let’s say you’re a Lamborghini and you’re running your
23:48 Lamborghini in the red 16 17 18 hours a day just non-stop
23:53 go and we’re never taking our Lamborghini in for service We’re never changing the oil we’re never you know
24:00 getting our service then the Lamborghini is going to stop running at some point right and that’s where you start
24:05 developing diseases or you get tired Right So it’s just some of these very basic things that we’ve made very
24:11 difficult I think in medicine And to your point I think these syndromes chronic fatigue syndrome whatever And I
24:19 mean this in the most respectful way as it can be I think that doctors have these big egos and they must put people
24:25 in boxes and then figure out how to you know give them a medication to fit in that box because that’s just what we
24:31 were taught in school And so that’s what we do And that’s not always the best thing to do to give somebody this
24:38 diagnosis because then they’re like “Oh I have this diagnosis of chronic fatigue I can never you know I’m going to be tired forever.” And it’s almost like
24:44 they shut down And so those are kind of my thoughts Well yeah And also just to
24:50 build on that a little bit as well you know you were mentioning about how you know one has you know their habits their
24:58 behaviors and they sort of that’s just they don’t they don’t necessarily see the impact of that I think it it goes broader as well because we normalize to
25:06 whatever state we are consistently in right So a lot of my work is looking at
25:12 the impacts of childhood trauma and just to say I mean trauma in the broadest definition of trauma So yes that can
25:17 include adverse childhood experiences things like physical abuse sexual abuse and so on but it’s also including just
25:23 not really getting our core needs met in the ways that we needed in in childhood But one of the impacts of that is our
25:30 nervous system starts to speed up So we go into what I call a maladaptive stress response where we are effectively
25:37 because our system is responding as though we’re in some kind of danger We are producing stress hormones
25:44 consistently so so we can fight a threat flight to get away from a threat or freeze and and and shut down I remember
25:52 early years of the Optimum Health Clinic We’re talking you know 20 years ago now And I would be explaining a sort of
25:59 primitive version of this impact about the relationship between trauma and stress and the nervous system and the impact of that upon health conditions
26:06 And people would say you know what you’re saying makes sense Like I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think that’s true for me And yet
26:13 they would be so disregulated that they couldn’t sit still in the chair They were talking so fast I had to ask them
26:20 to repeat themselves And as a relatively empathetic person I’d feel my own nervous system sort of becoming
26:25 activated being being with this person But they wouldn’t they didn’t recognize
26:30 the fact they were in this disregulated state because that was their normal state You know I remember when I first
26:36 started learning principles of you know how to do guided relaxations and recording my own voice and listening
26:43 back and thinking I was talking slowly and then realizing that my talking slowly was still still speaking three
26:50 times the sort of necessary speed So we’re often just don’t realize that
26:55 we’re speaking too fast we’re eating too fast we’re emotionally disconnected from ourselves we’re constantly pushing
27:02 ourselves beyond our limits you know we’re not emotionally available in our relationships what you know whatever
27:07 that the issues are because that’s our normal But just because it’s our normal
27:13 doesn’t make it healthy doesn’t make it the state that we need to be in for our
27:18 body to be well Yeah 100% And to your point too like so you have a couple
27:25 videos that I thought were very interesting You have a video on YouTube about toxic self-t talk and what it is
27:31 and how to stop it And then you have one about you have to love yourself before you love someone else Both of those
27:38 things resonate with me a lot just because I was explaining to you whenever
27:43 I meet someone for the first time and they’re kind of ex you know patients come in and they’re going to talk for 5
27:48 or 10 minutes about themselves and they’re going to tell you their story and why they’re there and I can tell
27:54 when somebody’s talking about themselves how chronic and nasty and toxic their
28:00 mindset is because they talk badly about themselves right like everything they say is you know well I I suck at this or
28:06 I’ve tried this and all I do is fail or it’s just it’s very interesting Um and when you kind of dive into that a lot of
28:12 times these people are in either abusive relationships and not necessarily physically abusive right They have a
28:18 spouse that’s very mean to them because they’ve been sick for a long time and so they start telling them you know you’ve
28:23 got to got to get over it or you’ve got to you know just get up or why can’t you know whatever Um and so it’s just
28:30 interesting because I have found that those people that have all that you know that that talk badly about themselves
28:36 that have a lot of just this chronic negative self-t talk it is almost impossible to make those people better
28:43 Like I talk to them about going to therapy I talk to them about you know we I like to ask them you know I I like to
28:50 point out to them it seems like you have a lot of negative things to say about yourself And they’ll usually say something like “Well yeah that’s because
28:57 I’ve tried a million things and failed at everything.” And you know I’m always like “Okay well would you speak like
29:02 that to your son or daughter or your best friend?” And they’re always “No.” Okay Well then why are you speaking like
29:08 that to yourself And the sad thing is you know these are thoughts that are going through their head all day long right Like we have tens of thousands of
29:14 thoughts a day And if a lot of them are negative about yourself you’re never
29:20 going to get better or feel better until you change that in my opinion Yeah Well
29:25 here’s a way to think about it The the ways that we were related to in
29:31 childhood sets up how we relate to ourselves How we relate to ourselves
29:38 sets up how we relate to other people and the parameters of how we allow other
29:44 people to relate to us And so if we grew up in an environment where we were
29:51 criticized you know where there was sort of judgment and criticism in the environment or we grew up in an environment where we just didn’t really
29:58 get what we needed and so we interpreted that as meaning that we were not loved or we were not seen or we were not
30:04 validated or whatever it may be that becomes internalized And part of the reason why that becomes internalized is
30:10 when we’re small children when our our parents or our caregivers are not around
30:16 we are we’re not ultimately safe right Like we are totally dependent upon our
30:22 caregivers to take care of us So it is threatening to the infant when the parents leave And so one of the things
30:28 they do is they internalize the voices of the of the caregivers partly from a perspective of comfort but also to learn
30:35 how to be the way that they need to be to then be safe or to be loved or to
30:40 have the sort of the the healthy boundaries that that that we need And so these structures are primitive These
30:48 structures are at the core of our psychological structures
30:54 And again it kind of goes back to what we were saying a little bit earlier about the nervous system We’re so normalized to it People are so
31:00 normalized to their internal dialogue that it sometimes takes quite a bit of pointing out to actually help people see
31:07 the way that they’re that they’re criticizing It’s like people can go on a high level I have bad you I have toxic self-t talk But to actually see it
31:15 happening in action is a whole different type of awareness for someone to actually see that process happening And
31:21 then as I was saying that impacts how we talk to ourselves How we’re related to
31:28 becomes how we relate to ourselves And so as you say you can have someone that is constantly either in their own mind
31:34 or even in the words they speak out to other people criticizing themselves putting themselves down attacking
31:39 themselves judging themselves But what that also does is we
31:45 teach other people how to treat us So if we are someone who is constantly
31:53 criticizing ourselves in a strange way when we’re around someone that criticizes us that
32:00 feels safe feels familiar because it’s a mirror of the internal world that we
32:06 have You can get a pretty good clue of what someone’s inner landscape is like
32:12 by the way the people around them treat them in their day-to-day life What you also notice is when people
32:18 change their inner landscape they start to have a different tolerance for other
32:24 people treating them those ways in their life So someone’s constantly had toxic self-t talk and then I work with them to
32:29 therapeutically change that they often start to notice how they got a whole bunch of people that are putting them down the whole time And whereas in the
32:36 past that wasn’t really noticed suddenly it’s like that’s really not okay But
32:41 also this inner landscape of toxic self-t talk of self- judgment
32:47 self-criticism these toxic relationships that then get created by that it is
32:52 constantly driving our nervous system into this maladaptive state And so again
32:59 one normalize normalizes to be to being in a maladaptive stress response They’ve
33:05 learned this is how they’ve been related to how they’re relating to themselves how other people now relating to them
33:10 But to our nervous system we never feel safe because we’re constantly being judged and criticized and attacked And
33:17 then that nervous system disregulation is directly impacting upon the physical body And that probably takes a lot of
33:24 energy too right If you feel like you’re if you’re in this negative environment you’re always feeling like you’re being
33:29 attacked you’re always on guard And so that’s going to take extra energy as well And so some of those people are
33:35 never going to feel less tired no matter how much sleep they get if they’re in these toxic negative environments But
33:42 also just to to bring another piece of of our jigsaw in here We were talking
33:48 earlier about mitochondrial function and about cellular energy production So Professor Robert Navio has done some
33:53 fascinating work on what he calls cell danger response which is looking at the mitochondria effectively have two
33:59 functions So function number one is cellular energy production but they have
34:05 a second function which is danger signaling right Think about it like this like the canaries in the coal mine So my
34:10 my paternal grandfather who I actually never met but he was a coal miner um here in in in England and the coal
34:18 miners would have a canary in a cage that they would take down into the coal mine And then if the canary went
34:25 unconscious that would be the warning sign that there’d be in a gas leak You wouldn’t be able to smell the gas but that would be the warning sign Then they
34:31 would all get out as quickly as they can and then hopefully the canary would sort of come come back to life So this kind
34:36 of became the phrase of the canaries in the coal mine which is like the warning sign that there there’s a threat or a danger Because of how efficient our
34:44 mitochondria are in in the process of metabolism and and so on part of their
34:50 job is internal danger signaling They’re like the canaries in the coal mine When
34:55 we are in a state of disregulation our mitochondria will
35:01 deprioritize energy production so they can prioritize danger signaling So that
35:07 that spreading of the internal message that there’s a threat or there’s a danger in the environment means that
35:14 that’s taking our energy but also we’re producing less energy because it’s the
35:19 same resource that’s being used for the danger signaling which is now not being used for the cellular energy production
35:25 And this is why we find that when we work with people to learn how to
35:32 regulate their nervous system how to switch off a a maladaptive stress
35:37 response they often report a significant impact in their energy Yeah No that’s so
35:46 it’s so true And I’ve I interviewed I don’t know if you know Dr um Bruce
35:51 Hoffman but he does a lot of mitochondrial work as well I interviewed him recently and he talked about the
35:57 cell danger signaling cascade and how you get stuck in that phase one instead
36:02 of you know going to phase two and phase three and how much energy that takes and that’s how people end up chronically ill
36:08 and you know it it’s very interesting you know from a personal and a p uh
36:14 personal and professional perspective you know I personally got really sick in
36:19 2022 and I couldn’t figure out why I mean I had some other health issues prior But when I really started to unravel it
36:27 a lot of it was the toxic work environment that I was in you know and as that has evolved over time like you
36:34 know I was in med school forever and then residency forever and fellowship forever And that is wildly toxic in the
36:40 United States All they do is teach you how to be terrible to yourself And then as soon as I graduated you know I went
36:45 to work for a big hospital system Mercy Hospital and they also teach you how to wildly be incredibly toxic to yourself
36:52 and your patients Um and so that didn’t work very well And then I went into a private practice with another provider
36:58 And that environment just you know I couldn’t figure out why when I was there
37:04 I just was always like everything that happened just it was very I don’t know I just had these like jolts in my stomach
37:11 where I just I didn’t feel good And then one day when I pulled up and I got that
37:16 feeling in my stomach I was like it’s this place that’s doing that right And
37:22 so you know my professional career has evolved as well And and so I’ve had my own clinic now for almost 3 years And it
37:30 it is interesting how that changes And to your point it’s interesting how when you get outside of that and something
37:37 re-triggers you it’s just like no you know So I have incidences every now and
37:42 then where it will be a patient or it will be a a person or just something will come into my happy work environment
37:49 and instantly I get that like just I want to throw up run whatever and before
37:56 the Cassie pleaser person that I would be would have just tolerated that and now I’m just like no no that’s not going
38:03 to happen like I just no and so it is very interesting how that happens you know how you just become but but for
38:09 years I just dealt with it right But I was also the tiredest I had ever been
38:14 the sickest I had ever been and I couldn’t figure out why because my labs looked fine and you know I had a few gut
38:20 issues and I couldn’t figure that out Well that was because my nervous system was always like going crazy right So it
38:26 is it is interesting how you just get used to it Like I it took me two and a
38:32 half years of working in a toxic environment to figure out wow this is why I feel like crap every day
38:39 Well one of the things that also happens when we you know when we learn in
38:44 childhood to be sort of toxic and critical and hard to towards ourselves
38:50 is we also don’t learn our boundaries right And we and we learn that our value
38:57 and our worth is tied to what we do and what we achieve and often also how we
39:03 take care of and we help others right So we become ultra compliant to everyone else’s needs But in the constant saying
39:09 yes to everyone else we’re constantly saying no to ourselves unless our needs are completely aligned with what everyone else wants for us And so what
39:17 in in healthy functioning when we’re in a toxic environment what should happen
39:23 is there should be an internal reaction that says this isn’t okay It’s a little bit like in our immune system So
39:29 something crosses a threshold in our immune system or we have an inflammation response you know if that’s on the skin maybe we get like a rash or something on
39:36 the skin or if it’s in our you know get seasonal hay fever So like it’s it’s in you know in our nose or eyes we sort of
39:41 get itching or we get dry throat whatever it may be So we have those reactions because something is crossing
39:47 a threshold and our system is is is is reacting to it That should happen
39:53 that should happen with our emotional body So when a boundary is violated we
39:59 should become irritated or we should feel angry or we should feel like this sense like that boundary has been
40:06 crossed But if we learned in childhood that our value was tied to what we do and taking
40:12 care of everyone else or our or our boundaries weren’t respected or we weren’t taught how to enforce our
40:17 boundaries then we can find ourselves in these toxic environments and and not
40:23 defending ourselves or not leaving the environment or not not sometimes we
40:28 can’t leave the environment sometimes we can’t even do a different action in the environment but we can least validate in
40:33 our inner landscape to go this isn’t okay like I see what’s happening I like what’s happening I need to find my
40:39 pathway through it But at least we’re validating our experience And so it’s a
40:46 big part of the healing work that you that you that you shared in terms of your your your journey is the starting
40:52 to realize that we need those boundaries And ultimately to say yes to ourselves
40:59 we have to say no to other people And we have to learn how to put those boundaries in place
41:05 And I think you also have to learn how to listen to yourself too right So I
41:10 feel like you know a lot of people will get these feelings maybe like I did for
41:15 years I would get them like oo I want to throw up or I mean mine is always like a butterfly I want to throw up and like
41:22 run or like you know I it’s just it was always the same but it was just like
41:28 well that’s there you know move on like it was almost like you’ve had that
41:33 feeling thousands of times and you know you just deal with it And so I think the
41:38 other problem is that people don’t listen to themselves So like I’m writing a book right now It’s almost done and it’s about the gut hormone connection
41:45 And I talk about how there is this huge connection between your gut and your brain right Your vag nerve and that
41:51 visceral feeling that you get that you want to vomit or know or like you have to listen to that feeling So whenever I
41:58 like reflect on things cuz I I like to do this now The biggest mistakes I’ve
42:03 ever made in my life just the top 10 every one of them in my gut I knew I
42:09 should have not done like my gut was just like immediately no And I did it anyways because I wanted to make someone
42:16 happy or because I always have that feeling it doesn’t matter or you know and so I think learning
42:22 to listen to that feeling is is you have to do it And to your point like some of it does you know maybe stem from
42:29 childhood etc And you can work through that But even when you’ve worked through that you just have to get to the point
42:35 where like to your point yes you listen to yourself you trust yourself and you you know like just don’t tolerate it And
42:42 the more that you don’t do that you know my therapist tells me this all the time Cassie the more you don’t allow those
42:47 things when they do come in even the little ones you’re just so intolerant of it And it’s true Like even little things
42:54 that before I would have been like uh I’m like no for instance patients like you know I’ll have a patient if a
42:59 patient comes in and yells at me or my staff prior I would have tried to calm them down I would Now I’m just like “No
43:06 you need to find a different clinic a different provider Like I’m I don’t even care Like that No you just you just took
43:12 my like sympathetic system up a notch you know.” And my staff sometimes are like “Really?” I’m like “Yeah really
43:18 we’re not tolerating that anymore.” Because 5 years ago I would have let him scream and throw things and you know because that was the environment that I
43:24 was in People threw things at the clinic I was at before Providers threw things people screamed and I’m just like “No.”
43:30 Like none of that’s happening anymore you know Yeah Well it’s also it’s loving
43:36 oneself enough to set a standard for how you how you’re willing to be in
43:41 relationship with people right And we we teach people how to treat us And so you
43:46 know I I have a you know it sounds like you have quite a quite a feisty feisty clinic for the times over the years It’s
43:53 like well you know when when we’ve had you know we had a patient once that was shouting down the phone at the staff and
43:58 I went and took the phone and said I’m really sorry we don’t do business to people that speak to my staff like this and they just got you know we’re just
44:04 not doing it And when your staff see you stand up for them and they see you go this this this is not what happens in
44:10 this environment that that is a it’s also a powerful message of intent of saying that you know I’m going to defend
44:16 this boundary I’m going to stand up for actually what what matters And I think you know a lot of the a lot of the talk
44:22 in the sort of healing self-development world you know I talk in my work about
44:28 we all have three core emotional needs And the first two are fairly obvious We have a need for safety and we have a
44:34 need for love But the third need is the need for boundaries That’s the ability to say yes the ability to say no to
44:41 ourselves to other people But also it’s healthy boundaries particularly when we
44:46 experience that in childhood where we actually have parents or caregivers that give us edges that when we push against
44:54 those we grow our strength Like we grow our personal power And you know part of
45:00 our healing work is also reclaiming our strength and our power And it’s standing for ourselves It’s standing for the
45:07 things that matter to us And it’s being able to pursue and go after the things in our lives that matter to us And I
45:14 think often there’s a lot that’s talked about around you know cultivating safety
45:19 and love and that’s all obviously really important but we also have to reclaim our power We have to reclaim our
45:26 strength and we have to stand for the things that matter in our lives We have to if we’re in toxic relationships it
45:33 takes power and strength to get out of those dynamics and to carve out the
45:39 kinds of relationships that we actually need that are going to support us moving forwards in our lives Yeah And just to
45:45 think about you know again all that negative toxic energy how much energy
45:50 that steals from you and robs from you right Like I just I think people don’t realize it that like if you get out of
45:56 those relationships or you get out of that relationship with yourself and you actually sit down and eat your food like
46:02 all the things you can do like I think you made a very good point about if you have a 100 units of energy a day how do
46:08 we allocate those the best way possible and most people listening to this are going to understand that right because we have an set amount of hours in the
46:14 day and most people have a million things they need to do kids and work and life and and so if you know I have a 100
46:21 units of energy today How am I going to allocate those And you want to feel well and you’re in the process of getting
46:27 better So you need you know probably h at least half of those repairing all the damage you’ve already had We’ve got to
46:33 pull from somewhere If we still got if we still need energy to get out of bed and we still need energy to go to work and we still need energy to provide for
46:40 our family then we’ve got to get we’ve got to reclaim some energy somewhere right And so it makes really good sense
46:46 to reclaim that energy from all the negative things that are draining you right whether it’s what you’re saying to
46:52 yourself what somebody else is saying to you like and sometimes that’s hard to do but I mean you just do it And people you
47:00 know I see this all the time cortisol levels insulin levels sleep hormone levels they all astronomically get
47:07 better if you’ll just do that And so sometimes you know when you’re chronically fatigued although you feel
47:13 like a drug or a pill or a hormone is going to make you feel better and it may to a certain degree the main thing you
47:19 have to do is is change your lifestyle right Like you have to take inventory
47:24 and then start making some changes in the big things that you talked about in mindset and hormones and digestive
47:30 health immune system nervous regulation all those things Yeah You know one of the things that I got really interested
47:36 in in the in the early years of of running the clinic was you know kind of mission number one was could we help
47:41 people get well And we figured out you know every case is different And I think anyone that claims to have all the
47:46 answers that should be a warning sign that they probably don’t have as many think they’ve got But I got really interested in okay we can get people
47:54 well but why don’t some people stay well Like what causes relapse like what are
47:59 the cases where someone gets back to back to health but they come back a year
48:05 later or five years later and they’ve crashed again Often in that instance what’s happening is there are underlying
48:12 variables that have not really been changed right Like so for example someone’s got a toxic achiever pattern
48:18 where they’re defining their self worth by what they do and what they achieve and they’ve got low self-esteem So they’re constantly driving themselves
48:25 beyond their edges and beyond their limits So they got sick they got well and then they spent the last two three
48:30 years constantly pushing themselves too hard again Their systems crashed again you know or someone has really poor
48:37 boundaries and has a big peopleleasing pattern and they’re constantly giving to and taking care of everyone else And
48:43 when they were ill they just couldn’t do that So in a way they had like a temporary reprieve from the pattern
48:48 because they just could they have the energy to do it And they’ve got well and they’ve gradually found themselves back
48:53 in all of those dynamics again And so that’s why we can’t just see recovery as
49:00 being about looking at the bodily systems that may be out of balance or may be impacted We can’t just look at
49:06 what’s happening in the nervous system We also have to look at these underlying dynamics of how one relates to themsself
49:12 how one relates to other people how one relates to the world Because these underlying dynamics are often what’s
49:19 driving whether our life is basically in balance or out of balance And if our
49:24 life is consistently out of balance at some point things are going to have to rebalance And normally the beginning of
49:31 the path to rebalance is some kind of disease Yeah that all makes sense So I
49:38 think this was all very enlightening Thank you for kind of talking us through
49:43 fatigue and how you look at it We’ll definitely put all of your stuff in the
49:48 show notes so people can find you I know you have a very active YouTube channel very interesting videos where you
49:55 actually interview people and do therapy on them So that is very interesting And
50:01 then I know you have several books So we’ll make sure that we get all that in the show notes as well So I want to end
50:08 by asking you three questions I ask everyone these three questions So don’t
50:13 overthink them But the first question is what is one food that’s most beneficial
50:20 and why I’m gonna make myself unpopular for some people and go down the path of
50:28 good quality animal protein be that grass-fed beef whatever it may be And why do you think that is just for the
50:34 protein content for you know it’s less of a thing these days because we’ve we’ve seen such a movement in recent
50:41 years towards um you know various forms of you know ketogenic or whatever it may be
50:46 Um particularly in the early years of my clinical career there veganism and vegetarianism was hugely popular And by
50:51 the way that has its place Some people’s bodies do super well on on on those programs But a lot of patients that we
50:58 work with have gone down those paths with the intention of improving health and have actually worsened their health
51:03 outcomes as a result of it So I’m being a little antagonistic but Alex I feel
51:09 like you’re being a people pleaser right now Maybe set your boundaries in Cuba He
51:15 said animal protein people Okay So next question is what is one thing that
51:21 anyone can do to improve their health that is 100%
51:26 free Hard one to do in this country but get morning sunlight You know it’s it’s
51:32 that the evidence is consistently shows will it will raise cortisol in the
51:38 morning It’ll also increase melatonin at night which means that you’ll wake up in a healthier more natural way but also
51:44 you’ll get better quality sleep You know it’s it’s cheap It’s it’s free Um and
51:49 even in the you know if you’re in the UK and we get a lot of cloudy days it it you’re still getting benefit You just
51:55 need to not be behind a window or behind sunglasses or whatever but getting sunlight on your eyes you know obviously
52:00 not directly but on your eyes and on your skin big benefit Yeah So not to be the dispop one here either but when I
52:07 interviewed Dr Bruce Hoffman he said “You must get morning sunlight for your mitochondria to function And if you
52:14 can’t get it where you live you need to move.” That’s what he said
52:19 So London the whole of the UK immigrates to Florida but there are I know Well and he lives in Cal in Calgary Uh and he’s
52:27 getting ready to move from Canada So anyways um just just putting that out there And the last question that I have
52:35 is if you could if you knew everything or Okay so 30 years ago what do you wish
52:41 you would have known about your health 30 years ago that you would have done differently knowing what you know today
52:47 Okay I think if I could sit myself down than me of um you know 25 years ago who
52:54 was you know very much on my own healing journey one of the things I would say to him is you’ve got to find the balance
53:00 and the balance what I mean by that is you know when I shared from my journey the first couple of years waiting for
53:07 someone else to find the answers wasn’t good but the next five years I was so obsessed with trying to get well that
53:14 there were times that was also not helpful either and so I think one has to find the balance of doing the work like
53:21 you need to figure you need to decode what’s happening you need to get the right practitioner support you need to cons to follow through but if you’re so
53:28 obsessively trying to get well You’re so anxious about all of the symptoms that you’ve
53:35 got you’re actually driving more of a state of nervous system dysregulation which is actually slowing things down
53:41 not speeding them up Put another way those of us that have an achiever
53:47 pattern have to be careful that we’re not trying to solve the problem with the problem So we need to be careful that
53:55 we’re not trying to achieve so hard at getting well that actually the very way we’re approaching it is putting us more
54:01 in the wrong direction The thing I’m always keen to make the point on is that
54:06 it’s possible for people to turn around their health I think sometimes you know a lot of the people
54:12 that we work with at the Optimum Health Clinic have tried a lot of things that haven’t worked and they’ve often been
54:20 the person who feels like they’re the only person it hasn’t worked for Now arguably one could say that’s often you
54:26 know clinics blaming the patient rather than taking responsibility for the inadequacies in their own in their own approach But often people we work with
54:34 will say things like “I’ve tried everything.” or they’ll say things like you know this is this this this is the last thing I’m I’m I’m I’m going to try
54:43 And you know no one has all the answers And I think you should be scared of anyone that claims to have all the
54:48 answers but there are a lot of answers that are out there And the majority of
54:54 people we work with are making significant progress in in improving their their health And you
55:00 know sometimes what we need is those initial wins to show us that it’s
55:06 possible That even if the journey is going to have some twists and turns and different pieces of that jig so I’m mixing my metaphors here but different
55:12 pieces of the jigsaw that we need to find if you can make some improvement
55:17 you can make a lot of improvement And so I think it’s also it’s an important message of practitioners that this is a
55:23 whole rabbit hole but I think it’s important that we be careful how we sequence intervention And I think
55:28 sometimes practitioners are too quickly to go into things that make people feel worseful they feel better And I often
55:34 think it’s important to to to build things up first and to sort of have some positive wins But it is possible for
55:41 things to change We have to do the work but it is absolutely possible I love
55:47 that It’s possible to change And I agree with that I feel like at you know at Modern Endocrine sometimes I tell people
55:53 like “Yeah I’m going to give you a little bit of thyroid medicine or I’m going to give you some hormone or I’m gonna whatever because I you need a
56:00 win.” Like you need a win but you know this isn’t the end all be all Like this is not how we treat it What we really
56:06 have to do is focus on other things So I think that’s a very valid point for patients but also for providers that are
56:12 listening And I do like you know just don’t give up Like you’re your own advocate you’re I mean if you give up
56:20 then nobody else is going to force you to to get better and so that’s why you know I do this that’s why I know you do
56:26 this that’s why I do the podcast is just to teach people like you know you are an end of one you’re responsible for your
56:33 own body your own health and if you don’t get the answers that you like from a provider that you go see find another
56:39 one like there are people that will be in your corner and there are people that want you to get better so I love that so
56:46 thank you so much for for your time today and for joining us and and helping teach our listeners more about fatigue
56:54 Great Thank you for having me Appreciate the conversation Thank you so much for joining me for this last hour to learn
57:00 more about fatigue and how your mental health your digestive health your immune
57:06 system all the things can play into fatigue I hope that you found this interesting If you personally are
57:12 struggling with fatigue or chronic illness and you felt like any of this was powerful or was
57:19 educational please make sure that you share this with other people that you think could benefit from it So anyone
57:25 else that you know that could benefit from hearing these things if you know people who you know maybe have a little
57:30 bit of a toxic mindset don’t talk nicely to themselves or just who are chronically tired or want good
57:36 educational information please share this with them Make sure you’re following us anywhere you get your
57:41 podcast We are on Apple Spotify and we’re on YouTube So check out our YouTube page as well We put a lot of
57:47 educational information on YouTube about these things gut health topics hormones etc I’m very active on social media so
57:55 please make sure you’re following us there Let me know who you want me to interview you what topics resonate with
58:01 you what you want to learn about I’m happy to get you all that information You just got to let me know And lastly
58:07 remember that Modern Endocrine has a license in 39 states and counting We are working on being in all 50 states by the
58:14 end of the year If you are interested in being a patient we do do virtual visits so you can do them from home If you’re
58:20 in the Oklahoma City area we’d love to see you in the clinic but we can do those virtually as well We have lots of
58:26 practitioners who are trained by myself We are so interested in making you
58:32 better We do a lot of gut health stuff a lot of mitochondrial chronic fatigue work We love hormones We’ll help you
58:38 with weight Whatever you need we’re here for you We have an amazing health coach as well who does a lot of nutrition
58:44 counseling Also thank you so much for your time this week I hope you found this educational and we look forward to
58:51 you joining us next week on hormones metabolism and you have a great week
58:56 [Music] The information presented including any materials discussed referenced or linked
59:02 within this podcast are for general educational purposes only not the practice of medicine No doctor patient
59:10 relationship is formed from you listening to this podcast or utilizing any of the information provided I am a
59:16 doctor but I am not talking to you as your doctor The information provided is not intended to diagnose or treat health
59:23 problems or take the place of the professional medical care provided by your doctor If you are experiencing any
59:30 health problems including problems you believe have been touched upon in any respect within this podcast you should
59:37 consult your doctor about the problems without delay You may ask your doctor whether he or she believes the
59:43 information I have provided would be helpful to you but you should still consult your doctor immediately and
59:48 follow his or her medical advice as your treating physician I’m just here to provide you basic knowledge about the
59:55 issues we discuss so you are more aware of them and can better discuss them with your doctor That’s why we call it back
1:00:02 to the basics Join me on the next episode as we continue our journey
1:00:07 [Music]
Disclaimer:
The information presented including any materials discussed, referenced, or linked within this podcast are for general educational purposes only, not the practice of medicine.
No doctor-patient relationship is formed from you listening to this podcast or utilizing any of the information provided.
I am a doctor, but I am not talking to you as your doctor. The information provided is not intended to diagnose or treat health problems or take the place of the professional medical care provided by your doctor.
If you are experiencing any health problems, including problems you believe have been touched upon in any respect within this podcast, you should consult your doctor about the problems without delay. You may ask your doctor whether he or she believes the information I have provided would be helpful to you, but you should still consult your doctor immediately and follow his or her medical advice as your treating physician.
I’m just here to provide you with basic knowledge about the issues we discuss so you are more aware of them and can better discuss them with your doctor.
That’s why we call it Back to the Basics. Join me on the next episode as we continue our journey.